Pre season training regimes

[boojangles]

This thread had been quite an education guys so well done and thanks! 

Some great responses and kudos to you guys for keeping it a healthy debate and not starting to tear shreds off each other.
I have a few burning questions to finish off....


Couldnt agree more.Some lads on this board could do with reading this thread if only to see how a topic should be debated.
Abbeysider just a quick question,Are you playing Inter-County football?

[JMohan]

One can't relly give out advice on the internet for 2 reasons ...
1. I could be a complete idiot
2. It's completely irresponsible for any practiconer of substance

Specifically to training ...
1. There's far too many variables to get from a web or email chat
2. The changes are too frequent etc
many more ..

In general terms ....

In the same way I plan to do jump squats instead of normal squats ?

Hmmm - yeh - you can and if you are going to - do them with a smith machine for safety and with lighter weight making sure the core is tight and posture good.
Not my preferred choice.

Is there any other highly recommended exercises for power?

Med Ball throws, Explosive throws or Hill sprints

Again all this is just for entertainment - it's hard to be anyway exact.

[JMohan]

This thread had been quite an education guys so well done and thanks! 

Some great responses and kudos to you guys for keeping it a healthy debate and not starting to tear shreds off each other.

Well all credit to the lads for keeping it amicable ...

It's great to have a respectful debate where you can share information - in fact if it started(s) to get heated or agressive I'd just walk - Why would you bother anyway?

[AbbeySider]

Abbeysider just a quick question,Are you playing Inter-County football?

No definitely, not boojangles! I wish I was good enough though 
I play at a very modest level but enjoy fitness and the gym

[INDIANA]

I wouldn't recommend jump squats for Gaa players. You'd want to be very strong at ordinary squats before trying those. And to be honest I think they are unecessary for Gaa players. Many people do jump squats incorrectly, I've often seen it in the gym and they should be largely reserved for professional players in my view.

[AbbeySider]

I wouldn't recommend jump squats for Gaa players. You'd want to be very strong at ordinary squats before trying those. And to be honest I think they are unecessary for Gaa players. Many people do jump squats incorrectly, I've often seen it in the gym and they should be largely reserved for professional players in my view.

I thought that jump squats with a relatively light weight on a Barbell or Dumbbells will help increase your vertical leap if you are doing a jump program.
I have read that in a few places. But obviously there are lots of additional exercises that go with it.

[AbbeySider]

One can't relly give out advice on the internet for 2 reasons ...
...

Thats grand, ill research it on my own anyway.
But I will keep in mind:  Power = Strength x Speed
Ill try and apply that a bit more

[Jinxy]

JMohan, if you're going to argue that a muscles capacity to generate force isn't directly proportional to it's cross-sectional area, could you cite some articles that support this? We all know that there are strength gains in the first few weeks of a training programme without any corresponding increase in muscle size, which is of course down to the neural aspect, but all other things being equal a bigger muscle will generate more force than a smaller muscle.

[JMohan]

JMohan, if you're going to argue that a muscles capacity to generate force isn't directly proportional to it's cross-sectional area, could you cite some articles that support this?

Well I would if that was the point of my argument ...
What I am saying is that ... For an athlete, in this specific case - a GAA player - muscle size is NOT the most important factor nor is it the determing factor in strength and power development or expression.

We all know that there are strength gains in the first few weeks of a training programme without any corresponding increase in muscle size, which is of course down to the neural aspect, but all other things being equal a bigger muscle will generate more force than a smaller muscle.

It doesn't end after a few weeks either - If you are keen to expand this look at things such as preferential hypertrophy, variations in hypertrophy adpatation such as myofibrillar hypertrophy and like I say that's just the mechanical adaptation - not even looking at neural or inter muscluar coordination.

Bottom line - you do not need to develop hypertrophy to develop strength or power.

[JMohan]

One can't relly give out advice on the internet for 2 reasons ...
...

Thats grand, ill research it on my own anyway.
But I will keep in mind:  Power = Strength x Speed
Ill try and apply that a bit more

Develop strength in the gym and use Hill Sprints to coordinate power
If you want to pm me I'm open to it my good man

[Jinxy]

Bottom line - you do not need to develop hypertrophy to develop strength or power.

That's true, but ultimately you will be limited in the extent that you can increase both if the muscle doesn't get any bigger.

[JMohan]

Bottom line - you do not need to develop hypertrophy to develop strength or power.

That's true, but ultimately you will be limited in the extent that you can increase both if the muscle doesn't get any bigger.

Sorry my dear man - you'll have to explain that for me - I'm struggling to understand what you mean - could be just I'm getting brain numb!

[Jinxy]

Any factor which influences the force generating capacity of a muscle will, by extension, influence the power generating capacity of a muscle.

[JMohan]

Any factor which influences the force generating capacity of a muscle will, by extension, influence the power generating capacity of a muscle.

Yes - but that's stating the obvious

Stop looking narrowly at the muscle - look at the whole body and the influencing factors.

It's not just simply increase size and all is better - it's a complex balance.

Here's a few other points to consider ...
- Once you increase size - you have to carry it
- Muscle needs energy to survive - energy costs rise
- Inter and intra coordination changes etc etc
- If you develop fibres they must be fast twitch
- The wrong fibre type training become a negative

People think size is important - Forget about hypertrophy and train for strenght and power

Be lighter, very strong and fast = powerful

[Zulu]

JM I'm finding it difficult to see where you're coming from, you suggest most of your info comes from listening to, talking to experts or reading books yet you seem to have a fairly good understanding of the science which leads me to believe you have or are studying in this area. However you also say some things which, with respect, lead me to suspect that you don't really have that in-depth understanding of these things that is needed (no offense). For example, those fitness coaches you spoke to during Christmas agreed there are 'many ways to Rome', yet to can't seem to accept that 6 weeks of aerobic work is a good method of improving early season fitness as part of an overall training program. You even incorrectly suggest that this will slow you down or that you may suffer from over use injuries and this is just plain wrong, the fact is any type of activity which raises your heart rate sufficiently high whether it is running, indoor soccer or tennis will benefit a footballer and certainly will do him no harm if done only in the early part of the season. You also use a rugby team as an example of a team which doesn't do 'distance' running, well rugby is a very different sport and they never did too much distance stuff in that sport. You are comparing a sport with a low aerobic requirement with a sport that has a fairly high aerobic requirement.

I also feel many of your opinions are more suited to the professional game, for example your view that hypertrophy can be skipped, I don't accept it can or in fact that it is, all rugby players for example are doing weights from a young age so they have undergone hypertrophy and therefore you may be able to focus on strength and power with them. However I think that it would be irresponsible for any coach to start a 23 year old GAA player with no weight lifting experience on a strength program without first developing a base.

I also can't understand how slow 400m runs with long rest periods in between reps can benefit any field athlete, though maybe i have misunderstood you on this one.