Angry Farrell denies "long-term objective" of pay-for-play in "war" - Indo

[Uladh]

If, by this stage, you are not fully aware of Dessie Farrells intentions then you must have been living on a different planet. These grants are the first step on the road to professionalism.

How do you know this?
- opinion, guesses, dreams, bogeyman stories, etc don't count... facts and actual quotes only please.

This is going to be painful

I should say that the direction that the issue has now gone, in terms of going to congress for approval, is absolutely the correct way to do things. obviously this is how it should have gone originally and what brennan et al were at i'll never know.

[Double Cross]

Does anyone on this board believe that Dessie and Co want anything other than pay for play?

[Hardy]

But that's exactly how it will be decided, whatever Dessie's or anyone else's personal opinions are on professionalism, it can only come to pass if the majority of the GAA vote for it. The GPA are here to stay and the GAA are right to recognize them and engage with them, the GPA have a role to play in the modern GAA and lads need to accept that.

And who elected the GPA, Zulu?

[Uladh]

And who elected the GPA, Zulu?

Careful now hardy... are you abot to decree that any member of the GAA not "elected" to their post should be disregarded?

[Hardy]

We need to crawl before we can walk and also in the current climate the expense rate is more acceptable in media circles as how we are perceived is very important at present.

Having said that, it should not prevent us from harbouring private opinions on this with long-term objectives. At the moment though, let's take it one battle at a time until the war is won.

Is it not clear to everybody that this direct quote not only negates the credibility of Dessie Farrell's every claim that he doesn't support pay for play, but actually verifies that those claims are an integral part of the strategy?

[Hardy]

And who elected the GPA, Zulu?

Careful now hardy... are you abot to decree that any member of the GAA not "elected" to their post should be disregarded?

What do you mean? Zulu was proposing that the GPA should be recognised as the legitimate representative of the players. On what basis? What's to stop me forming an opposing ad hoc rump of malcontents representing, say, Junior B and C Players and demanding recognition as the legitimate representative organisation for of all GAA players? That's the direct equivalent of what the GPA has done as a self-appointred sub-grouping of one category of players.

[Uladh]

Surely if the majority of GPA members regard winning the war as attaining full and comprehensive support and expenses for every IC footballer and hurler in the country, then it is a noble cause?

Obviously the objectives of the collective will override any contrary personal aspirations, if they exist.

[Uladh]

What do you mean? Zulu was proposing that the GPA should be recognised as the legitimate representative of the players. On what basis? What's to stop me forming an opposing ad hoc rump of malcontents representing, say, Junior B and C Players and demanding recognition as the legitimate representative organisation for of all GAA players? That's the direct equivalent of what the GPA has done as a self-appointred sub-grouping of one category of players.

On the basis that the GPA is endorsed by the body of members that it specifically represents, unlike for example player welfare officer. There is nothing to stop you forming what you wish except the cruel realiy that you will not be able to sustain it out of lack of interest from your target membership and resources.

[Hardy]

On the basis that the GPA is endorsed by the body of members that it specifically represents

How do you know? Have you seen audited ballot results? And even if was legitimately constituted as the representative body for inter-county players, on what basis has it  been granted official status (without reference to the GAA membership at large) as the representative body for ALL players, including those whom it explicitly excludes from membership?

[Zulu]

What do you mean? Zulu was proposing that the GPA should be recognised as the legitimate representative of the players. On what basis? What's to stop me forming an opposing ad hoc rump of malcontents representing, say, Junior B and C Players and demanding recognition as the legitimate representative organisation for of all GAA players? That's the direct equivalent of what the GPA has done as a self-appointred sub-grouping of one category of players.

Who elected the first trade unions Hardy? In fairness a group was formed to represent the collective views of players and the players (the majority anyway) accept that the GPA speak on their behalf. In any large group their will always be people who disagree with the majority view but I don't think it can be argued that the GPA don't represent the IC players. And as such the GAA do need to engage with them, some of ye are taking that one quote from Dessie and using it to beat the GPA with. On the one hand you take that quote as indisputable evidence of their true goals while dismissing Dessie's more recent pronouncements as lies.

[Uladh]

I'm afraid Hardy that the membership numbers of the GPA are the best we can go on. Do you require audited ballot results for every representative body you come across or are you making a special case? My understanding is that the GPA are the officially recognised representatives of IC players, not players. This came as part of the negotiation that resulted in the GPA's central council seat and the abolition of the misguided post awarded to Jareth Burns. To reverse this you will need yet another motion to congress

[quidnunc]

Who elected the first trade unions Hardy? In fairness a group was formed to represent the collective views of players and the players (the majority anyway) accept that the GPA speak on their behalf. In any large group their will always be people who disagree with the majority view but I don't think it can be argued that the GPA don't represent the IC players. And as such the GAA do need to engage with them, some of ye are taking that one quote from Dessie and using it to beat the GPA with.

There's a few big differences between the GPA and ordinary trade unions. First of all, Dessie gave himself the CEO job - democracy, where are you? Secondly, he only represents some of an elite group of county players.  Thirdly, the GPA as a trade union is not seeking better terms for players; it's seeking better terms for the GPA. A real trade union would be negotiating a reduction of the amount of training county players do; GPA leaders promote the idea that more is better. The GPA treats players as commercial entities much more than the GAA leaders do.

Also, as for this notion of all county players being happy with the GPA agenda, does it not strike you that this document was provided by a county player who was disgusted with its agenda?

On the one hand you take that quote as indisputable evidence of their true goals while dismissing Dessie's more recent pronouncements as lies.

Yes of course we do. The comments about the long-term objectives were made in private when he thought nobody was reading. His public pronouncements since then are specifically aimed for public consumption.

[Hardy]

Who elected the first trade unions Hardy? In fairness a group was formed to represent the collective views of players and the players (the majority anyway) accept that the GPA speak on their behalf.

Again. Zulu - how do you know? What is the GPA's constitution? What is their voting procedure? What was the motion that they voted on , for instance , when they threatened to strike? How are the views of their membership canvassed? Who, in fact, are their members? Is there a list? And, as you say yourself, they represent only the inter-county players, if they represent anybody. It's my understanding that this loosely-constituted pressure group has now been officially recognised by the GAA as the representative body for ALL players . I'm not sure how that decision was made and whether it was constitutionally correct. If I'm wrong and the GPA is not the officially recognised representative of all players, then  who represents non-inter-county players? And if the answer is that club players don't actually have any representation, how can the GAA executive justify granting recognition to one class of players and not another?

Further, the GPA specifically exists to better the lot of inter-county players. We'll leave aside the debate as to what specifically it is that they want. But, whatever it is, in a zero-sum game with finite resources, whatever they get will, by definition, be at the expense of the rest of the organisation. That includes the club players whom, if I understand correctly, they are now officially representing! Isn't that putting the fox in charge of the hen-run?

some of ye are taking that one quote from Dessie and using it to beat the GPA with. On the one hand you take that quote as indisputable evidence of their true goals while dismissing Dessie's more recent pronouncements as lies.

But how can they be anything else, when the quote itself explains that this is the strategy - keep your true aim under wraps and pretend that you're really after something else? There can be no other interpretation of his denials. Since he has tipped us off in advance that this is exactly how he's going to do it, what else are we to make of it when he actually does it?

[descartes]

this is hilarious... the anti GPA continigent can't seem to reconcile that Dessie Farrell, who is entitled to harbor full blown professionalism for the gaa if he so wants privately, must act in accordance with the wishes of the group he represents. ie IC players, or the majority of them anyway if GPA membership figures are accurate. Dessie Farrell IS NOT the GPA.

People who are anti-professionalism, are anti GPA and anti Dessie Farrell,  but they're not the same thing.

[quidnunc]

If Dessie Farrell IS NOT the GPA, how did he, as one of an interviewing panel of 3, give himself the CEO job?

I have never heard of this in any other properly constituted organisation in the world.

There are of course other GPA members with their own opinions, but only one or two count.