Free State Government grant to Orange Order

[his holiness nb]

In fairness Gnevin, "the six counties" and "the free state" are hardly terms made up by Tony.

Whatever you think of him, these terms are still accurate enough descriptions.

[Gnevin]

In fairness Gnevin, "the six counties" and "the free state" are hardly terms made up by Tony.

Whatever you think of him, these terms are still accurate enough descriptions.

I said made up name ,not that he himself made them up and the six maybe accurate enough but the free state hasn't existed for over 60 year. It's a gear grinder

[Zapatista]

Isreal didn't exist for many years but still refered to as Isreal by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

[Gnevin]

Isreal didn't exist for many years but still refered to as Isreal by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

No its Tomato - Politicize ,red skinned fruit while us true veg remained loyal to the cause and didn't sell out   

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Israel didn't exist for many years but still referred to as Israel by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

No its Tomato - Politicize ,red skinned fruit while us true veg remained loyal to the cause and didn't sell out   

Ah your a vegetable GNevin - it all becomes clear now! 

[Zapatista]

Isreal didn't exist for many years but still refered to as Isreal by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

No its Tomato - Politicize ,red skinned fruit while us true veg remained loyal to the cause and didn't sell out   

Sorry Gnevin but I don't understand that? So a tomato is a fruit but you are a veg, am I right?

[Gnevin]

Israel didn't exist for many years but still referred to as Israel by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

No its Tomato - Politicize ,red skinned fruit while us true veg remained loyal to the cause and didn't sell out   

Ah your a vegetable GNevin - it all becomes clear now! 

No I as a free stater am a fruit it's a very clear metaphor

[Gnevin]

Isreal didn't exist for many years but still refered to as Isreal by many. My da still talks about meeting someone at Guy's entry even though Guy's entry has been the Spar shop for about 10years. Unionists use they name 'Ulster' for OWC and we all know what they are talking about. Many say Ireland when they are talking about the Republic of Ireland (evident in the Ireland v Brazil tread).Tomato - Tomato.

No its Tomato - Politicize ,red skinned fruit while us true veg remained loyal to the cause and didn't sell out   

Sorry Gnevin but I don't understand that? So a tomato is a fruit but you are a veg, am I right?

us meaning people  like fearon , sell out meaning the treaty .Was also going for the whole tomato fruit or veg angle .....  awe forgot it .

This level of imagery is wasted on you lot . I think I'll just email it too Seamus Heaney, he'll appreciate my genius

[GweylTah]

No organisation that forbids membership, or discriminates, on the basis of what one is born by chance should be in receipt of tolerance and understanding, much less tax payers' money.

That's all of the churches on this island not getting any money either, then.

I see a section of GAA-Boarders remain as intolerant and neanderthal as they were the last time I popped-in, though to be fair this thread is all very tame compared to the disgraceful content of some other threads, for example the one about the brutal killing of the guy in W Belfast a few days ago (a pretty unedifying sequel to the earlier one about the apprently equally brutal slaying of the young Quinn fella in south Armagh late last year).

Honestly, if you could see yourselves, as others see you - so much hate, so much ignorance, so little tolerance, so little intelligence, so ungraceful.

[Rossfan]

Those discriptions would appear to fit  the Orange Order very well Gwaytahell.

I see there's a feature on a Cavan Orange man in today's "independent" .
He has pictures of Linfield and his beloved Glasgow Rangers up in his Orange Hall. Sounded disdainful about Gaelic Games of course.
He says he feels British but of course doesnt qualify for a Brit passport being from a different sovereign country.(and before the usual suspects start on about Nationalists in the North getting Irish passports -they live in Ireland after all -yer man doesnt live in Britain)
He sounded like a right bigotted tosser and certainly doesnt reflect any Protestants I know  -and I'm related by marriage to a number.

[Maguire01]

No organisation that forbids membership, or discriminates, on the basis of what one is born by chance should be in receipt of tolerance and understanding, much less tax payers' money.

That's all of the churches on this island not getting any money either, then.

All Churches/Religions should have to fund themselves; political organisations likewise.  Neither are a legitimate expense on taxpayer funds. Cultural organisations differ, and this is where some may see a grey area in cases like this.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

No organisation that forbids membership, or discriminates, on the basis of what one is born by chance should be in receipt of tolerance and understanding, much less tax payers' money.

That's all of the churches on this island not getting any money either, then.

See your absence has really brought your powers of deductive reasoning on remarkably then.

No, no church shouldn't be in receipt of public funding either, save that they may have a building or some such of significant historical or cultural signficance in need of repair or restoration, i.e., for a reason other than a particular creed or belief per se. Are you aware of 'collection plates' (or do you know of some churches that are already receiving public funding for subvention)?

Next question?

[GweylTah]

Next question?

Insread of sarcastic insults, why not check yor facts?

The Dublin Government treats churches as charities, so they are largely tax-exempt.

"Religious" schools are also very heavily subsidised by the State, many have been built with public money and much of their running costs paid for out of tax.

All of these institutions are sectarian in the true sense of the word.

If they are funded by public money, then there's no reason why the Orange order shouldn't be - plenty of taxpayers to the State are Orangemen and Orangewomen, aren't they reflected in the flag and doesn't this indicate as they are a welcome minority and cherished as children of the Nation?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

"Sarcastic insults"? You're an excuse of an argument, sorry, but you just don't cut it.

Tax-exemption is not public funding, d'oh!

'Religious' schools are there to teach primarily, not to proselytize, though that may be a by-product (unfortunately).

Are you familiar with the tenets of the Orange Order constitution at all FFS, or tell me which other affiliated institution does discrimination like the OO does discrimination? If you're a Catholic or Church of Ireland you are not forbidden to associate or more with other religions for fear of being ejected, and the bleeding rest.

Edit: That you equate the Churches with the Orange Order speakes volumes; we are born into a Church, yet you must choose to join the Orange Order. That's a fundamental distinction: what we are born by chance against what be become by choice. And I'm no fan of the Churches, Christian or otherwise.

I happen to believe that the Orange aspect of Irish tradition is well worth preserving, it's an important legacy. But I also believe that the OO are the worst inheritors of that legacy, given that they comprise, in the main, unreconstructed bigots. Do you know why the OO were formed? Do you know why Dissenters were prohibited from membership initially? Do you know why Dissenters were then allowed admittance in 1805? Do you care for the intolerance that is their very essence?

[GweylTah]

"We are born into a church".

Very illuminating that, in 2008, you think in such a way .... and your poor attempts at pedantry don't cut it either.

I don't think the Orange in the national flag is supposed to only be those members of the Protestant population who have been becalmed.

Or is it?