2008 Six Nations Thread

[Uladh]

Anyone any idea why, with Balshaw at full back, ireland never put up a single garryowen all day?

[tyroneboi]

Cheerio Eddie, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. (and if you could take ROG with you it would be handy.)

Take Ronan O'Gara with him?? and replace him with who??

[SammyG]

Cheerio Eddie, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. (and if you could take ROG with you it would be handy.)

Take Ronan O'Gara with him?? and replace him with who??

Paddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.

[Zulu]

Paddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.

I'd know little enough about rugby but if that comment is anything to go by you know less. Surely his goal kicking and kicking from the hand are reasons enough to keep him there. And I've never heard anyone talk up Paddy Wallace as anything more than average in most facets of the game.

[SammyG]

Paddy Wallace would be the obvious replacement (although he's not having a great year) but even if we'd nobody we'd be better off with 14 men, than playing ROG, he's a complete liability.

I'd know little enough about rugby but if that comment is anything to go by you know less. Surely his goal kicking and kicking from the hand are reasons enough to keep him there. And I've never heard anyone talk up Paddy Wallace as anything more than average in most facets of the game.

I presume you didn't read my post, I said that Wallace isn't great but he's still miles better than ROG who is a complete liability and has been for several years.

[thewobbler]

O'Gara? It's very easy to say he's the best we have, as nobody else has ever been given a chance under Eddie. The only time Paddy Wallace started a game for Ireland against reasonable opposition, he put in a flawless performance (Pacific Islanders), only never to be trusted again. The likes of Andy Dunne and Ian Humphreys will probably never even find themselves in that position.

As far as I'm concerned, whenever everything is put on a plate for him by his pack, O'Gara is useful at kicking for the corners (no better than useful, nowhere near Wilkinson's class or Humphrey's class in that aspect of the game), but under any other circumstances, he is limited to point of liability. People say he is a confidence player, I would disagree. It may look like he has no confidence when he is playing behind anything other than a destructive pack, but the reality is he just can't play any other way - he isn't good enough. It's not confidence that's his problem.

The soft ride he has gotten from the Irish coaches and Irish media in recent seasons is deplorable. Awarding him the captaincy is nothing short of despicable. Paddy Wallace and co might no be world-beaters, but to describe the everpresent incumbent at no.10 as on a different plain to them is just pure wrong.


Today was rubbish, absolutely rubbish. O'Sullivan can't affect proceedings too much after the kick off, but I'll make two points on why he should go: 1) Shane Horgan is not, never has been, and never will be, an international centre. When he plays there against stronger opposition, Ireland lose. 2) Mick O'Driscoll may have developed into a passable international second row, but he is not, nver has been, and never will be either an international back row forward, or an international class impact substitute. If Eddie can't see these things after 5 years in the job, then he isnt fit to be picking an international team.
 

[Zulu]

Sammy like I said I wouldn't be a big rugby fan so I don't watch much of it but I do know quite a few rugby fans and I have never heard any of them suggest that Ronan O'Gara is anything less than a quality kicking outhalf. Not wanting to be pedantic here but you said that PW wasn't having a great year, not that he wasn't great and either way you're the first person I've heard of who thinks PW is 'miles better than Ronan. If you admit Wallace isn't great do you not think that O'Gara's kicking is reason enough to keep him in the team?

[thewobbler]

Zulu, O'Gara's kicking is good, but it's not exceptionally good, and certainly not enough to warrant a place in a team by itself. I would suggest Wallace is every bit as accurate, but probably wouldn't have the same length as ROG.

[Zulu]

So wobbler are you saying that Wallace is the better outhalf and just as good a kicker? If so why isn't there more of a clamour for his introductiion? Could yourself and Sammy's opinion be coloured by an Ulster bias? I'm not saying it is but it is natural to feel that 'your man' should get the nod in a tight decision. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm just surprised to read this here when everyone else seems to think it is one of the few things EOS is getting right.

[thewobbler]

FFS Zulu, this is not a provincial thing.

A man called O'Gara has earned almost 100 caps for Ireland, and just been awarded the captaincy, despite regularly proving himself incapable as an international fly-half. That is the issue here, nothing else.

I don't give a flying f**k who replaces him or where they're from, but I would like to see a change.


By the way, it's not a 'tight' decision. There is absolutely no evidence that PW could be an international fly-half. Why? Because he hasn't been given a chance. Why? Because the Irish management have been quite content to settle for mediocrity in the most important position in rugby.

[slow corner back]

I hate to point out something obvious in this debate but Paddy Wallace has never been able to nail down the number 10 shirt for Ulster never mind Ireland. He is currently being kept at centre for Ulster with Niall O Connor at fly half. O Connor has played right through the ranks for Ireland at fly half and is a much better long term replacement for ROG than Paddy Wallace. Unfortunately due to EOS desperate attempt to keep himself in a job he was completely unwilling to take a young player like O Connor along with the seniors for experience.

[tyroneboi]

Ireland dont have many options at 10 but O'Gara is still a quality player. Paddy Wallace isn't even playing 10 for Ulster at the minute. Ian Humphreys doesnt get much game time with Leicester and Niall O'Connor isnt close to being ready for international rugby. And then who are we left with? not many. Sammy to say Wallace is miles better than O'Gara is laughable to say the least. ROG obviously didnt have the best World Cup but his form in the Heineken Cup has been his usual high standard one of the best 10s in the tournament and he has been decent enough in the Six Nations.

[Zulu]

That's your opinion wobbler and that's fair enough, but I guarantee that you wouldn't find too much support for your position down here in Munster, while it appears you would in Ulster, which is again fair enough. People tend to lean toward their own and all I asked was if it was possible if your opinion was a bit coloured. I know many rugby supporters down here won't here of a bad word said about some of the Munster lads. I originally posted because of Sammy's post that Wallace was miles better than O'Gara, now you're saying there is no evidence to suggest that Wallace is an international out half. So are you complaining about O'Gara's selection or the fact that EOS didn't give Wallace game time to show what he can do? If it's the latter when should he have done it and why is yours the minority view in the media?

P.S. I'm not arguing with you here I'm just curious as to what you're saying and why it appears to be the minority view.

[thewobbler]

There is no evidence to suggest Wallace is an international outhalf. But nor is there any evidence to suggest he isn't. We won't know until he is given 30+ mins in a competitive match. This could have happened in any match this season, especially once the Grand Slam dream had gone.

You know, if EOS had have been in charge of Wales for the past 5 seasons, we'd have the same doubts over James Hook's ability.

[tyroneboi]

To be fair I think Wallace is just about good enough to play at provincial level. I have seen a lot of Ulster games and many Ulster supporters would say he is an average player.