2008 Six Nations Thread

[slow corner back]

I think as a general point, as has been said before, far too many of this irish team are living on their reputation and not the performances of this season. Today was an ideal oppotunity with not a lot at stake, the championship was gone for both teams, to try a few different players and see how it went. Personally I would have kept O Gara but dropped Paul O Connel who was woeful against wales and poor again today. He may not be fully fit but if that is the case he should be off the team. I agree about horgan not being a centre, would have given Luke Fitz a run to see what he was made of. Having said that trimble was poor again today and has had a very poor tournament.

[thejuice]

considering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim.

[Dinny Breen]

considering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim

Except our u20s won the grand slam the year before 

Anyway underage success is not a barometer that transcends to Senior level very well.

As for the Irish performance yesterday, it just seemed rudderless and leaderless. The defensive allignment looked poor and the chase on the kick was poor. Our midfield option taking and support was as poor as I have ever seen.

Some points.....

1. O'Sullivan is now gone
2. O'Connell should never have been selected
3. Hayes, Easterby, Wallace, Dempsey and Murphy should all retire gracefully
4. We need a backs coach.
5. We need a new line-out coach
6. We need a specialist 7
7. I believe the players are there, the talent is coming through we just need a coach with a vision and that has the confidence to bring in specialist coaches....Jake White would be my choice followed by a combo of Matt Williams and Alan Gaffney maybe Declan Kidney could do a job maybe...
8. By the way I'm not his biggest fan but anyone slating O'Gara I would have to question their agenda....

Hopefully this will be a watershed....

[Main Street]

Dinny why do think Murphy and Wallace should retire?
I guess someone has to go.
Not that I know much about the game, I only tend to notice their strengths.
Are there a few replacements in the reserves for them?

[thewobbler]

I don't see why you feel there is some agenda here Dinny. The truth is that O'Gara has been centrally involved as playmaker and decision maker in almost every minute of Irish Rugby since the World Cup opener, and during that time the creativity of Ireland's backline has dropped immensely, and is now on a par with Italian rugby. He is not solely culpaple for the decline, but he surely has to take a lion's share of responsibility.

When you throw in a succession of missed touches, yesterday's appalling handling, and his perennial deficiency in defence, I find it bewildering that he could be considered untouchable enough to be made captain.

[Main Street]

Questionable agenda? When it's wummer SammyG, who has been moaning about O'Gara for years, even ranting about such non events as when O'Gara was caught looking sideways during Ulster's Call before playing an excellent game.

[Dinny Breen]

I feel there is an agenda because O'Gara is not from Ulster, the fact that you mentioned Wallace as a possible replacement is palpable, Sexton or Hickey would be more reasonable alternatives. Wallace has shown nothing to prove he is a provincial 10 never mind an international 10 and is currently 2nd choice in his own province. O'Gara is an excellent distributor of the ball but this 6 nations he had a clearly out of form BOD and D'Arcy, a useless lump in Horgan and a is he a centre or a winger Trimble all outside him. O'Gara's kicking game is second to none, missed touches are sometimes done deliberately rather than concede a line-out. He has however a fragile defence and poses no threat with ball in hand. We have no alternative and we have no competition for 10 since the Dave Hump retired. McHugh, Hickey, Staunton and Humps Jnr were all allowed leave the country leaving 2 qualified out-halfs playing for their provinces. He is the only out-half we have....

Dinny why do think Murphy and Wallace should retire?

Murphy is 30 and I just don't think he has much left in him. he's certainly lost a yard of pace and I feel we should develop Fitzgearld or Kearney now for the full-back spot. Likewise Wallace is nearly 32, has a had poor 6 nations and is no longer a force at 7, could still do a job for Munster at 6 or 8 I think.

[johnneycool]

considering that our under 20's got a severe beating the other night, the future of Irish rugby looks dim

Except our u20s won the grand slam the year before 

Anyway underage success is not a barometer that transcends to Senior level very well.

As for the Irish performance yesterday, it just seemed rudderless and leaderless. The defensive allignment looked poor and the chase on the kick was poor. Our midfield option taking and support was as poor as I have ever seen.

Some points.....

1. O'Sullivan is now gone
2. O'Connell should never have been selected
3. Hayes, Easterby, Wallace, Dempsey and Murphy should all retire gracefully
4. We need a backs coach.
5. We need a new line-out coach
6. We need a specialist 7
7. I believe the players are there, the talent is coming through we just need a coach with a vision and that has the confidence to bring in specialist coaches....Jake White would be my choice followed by a combo of Matt Williams and Alan Gaffney maybe Declan Kidney could do a job maybe...
8. By the way I'm not his biggest fan but anyone slating O'Gara I would have to question their agenda....

Hopefully this will be a watershed....

I'd be inclined to add Shane Horgan to the list on point three, he's certainly not a first 15 certainty now, should never be considered as a centre and only given the odd run out on the wing if and when someone is injured. Jamie Noone cleared both him and Trimble out on saturday. Trimbles saving grace is his age but will need to be better coached in his positioning, seemed a bit lost at times.

O'Connell had an horrendous day, loosing the ball in contact and seemingly going it alone far too often, maybe that's where Leamy was missing and Easterby wasn't up to the mark. What happened Neil Best, he never let anyone down in any of the internationals I've seen him play? At least he can send a man backwards in a tackle, something we're not good  at.

I noticed that the Ireland defence is happier to stay in a line and drift rather than rush onto their opposite number like the Welsh did against France, I suppose with the lack of a French kicking game they are less likely to get hit but the grubber kick but I'd suggest it's more to do with Edwards rugby league esque defence.

The pluses for the year has to be heaslip and Kearney, but more reinforcements are required in the front row and the backs for Ireland to compete next year. A new team needs to be built and I don't think Eddie is the man. I wonder if any non tax paying Irish billionaires would found the salary of a top international coach?

[GalwayBayBoy]

In fairness Horgan should never be considered for the centre. He's a winger and a very good one. He hasn't been a regular centre for donkey's years. He was one of Ireland's better players against Wales from the wing so he still has a lot to offer there.

O'Connell didn't have a good day alright but it was probably only his third full game back after a long injury lay-off. He probably shouldn't have played in the championship at all because he looked a fair bit off the pace.

[Hoof Hearted]

laughing stock of the northern hemisphere we are
less than 6 months ago, wales were in the exact same boat to us if not worse. lost to fiji in the group stage (at least the argies are rated higher)
not 1/2 an hour after the defeat, jenkins was called into a wee room and told thanks but no thanks
now they are grand slam winners - it wasnt rocket science what they done, manager failed so they replaced him.
with the right men in charge at the RFU, that could have been us
400 mins of rugby and we could pick out 30 mins against france and scotland where we got a decent cheer
very very dissapointing

[Hound]

Wales are no great shakes. They did put in a very good performance v France, but I firmly believe this was the worst standard 6 Nations tournament since Eddie O'Sullivan became Irish boss. Which highlights how bad Ireland (and many of the others) played this year.

[johnneycool]

Wales are no great shakes. They did put in a very good performance v France, but I firmly believe this was the worst standard 6 Nations tournament since Eddie O'Sullivan became Irish boss. Which highlights how bad Ireland (and many of the others) played this year.

Wales aren't great shakes but they still have two 6 nations in the bag in very recent years, so they are doing something right my guess is that their players aren't wrapped in so much cotton wool in relation to club games and are battle hardened more so that their Irish counterparts. The English players also play a lot more games than their Irish counteparts and guess who faded most on saturday past!