Frank McGuigan on grants

[Zulu]

And you seriously believe that do you ?? 

The GPA may seek the money from the GAA in the event that the govt. stop paying it but they would have no leverage to force the GAA to do so. They have publically and in writing accepted that the GAA have no responsibility to pay this so a strike threat would have little impact or support. As for the grant increasing it may do but with choppier economic waters ahead I'd doubt it will increase drastically anytime in the near future. How long have other sports people been getting grants and by how much have they increased in this time?

[The Port]

The rubicon has been crossed a long time ago. It started with advertising hoardings at Croke park and other GAA venues. Then came the Kerry washing machine fiasco. Next we had the advertising on jerseys. Players were then allowed to advertise products if it was in connection with their work. I'm not sure that I have these in the strict chronological order but no matter. Money was creeping more and more into the association. Now we have players threatening to strike grants etc. I remember a time not so long ago when it would have been unthinkable that the GAA would have been so unpatriotic as to not give unfettered rights to any media outlet other than the national one. ( Let us not forget the large part played by the predecessors to RTE i.e. Radio Eireann Telifis Eireann in popularising Gaelic Games during the last century) But eaten bread is soon forgotten. Now we sell them off to the highest bidder notwithstanding th fact that he does not have coverage for the whole of the national Territory. You cannot expect that the higher echelons of the association can be seen to have such dedication to filthy lucre and that these values will not filter down to the players.
Over the holiday period I watched the programme on the richest people in Ireland. Many of these have sporting interests including GAA interests. Most as you would expect are solid citizens and could be trusted not to use their money to corrupt sport. But let's say somewhere down the line some of this money falls into the wrong hands and some entrepreneur decides that instead of leading the winner in at Cheltenham or taking over a premiership club he would like to sponsor his or some other county winning an all Ireland. He might allocate a few million of small change to giving nominal jobs to prospective players both from inside and outside the county, allowing generous time off for training etc. In effect they would become full time professionals. At this point our 1500 euro would become small beer. Could you see the GAA take him on.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

And you seriously believe that do you ?? 

So you blatantly don't believe what you are told by the GAA and the GPA?
So if you can't/wont accept something clearly stated by both parties then you won't accept anything that you are told in relation to the issue.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The rubicon has been crossed a long time ago. It started with advertising hoardings at Croke park and other GAA venues...

I would agree with you that money has been seeping, trickling, and now pouring into the organisation for quite some time how. For me, however, payments to players was the "thus far and no further!" line, the tipping point. That some don't see it as pay-for-play is a personal choice, but what you've outlined as the possible outworkings are distinctly not beyond the realms if possibility. Scary.

[Zulu]

That some don't see it as pay-for-play is a personal choice, but what you've outlined as the possible outworkings are distinctly not beyond the realms if possibility. Scary.

I think it is largely beyond the realms of possibility and it is certainly no more likely because of the grants than it was before it.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

That some don't see it as pay-for-play is a personal choice, but what you've outlined as the possible outworkings are distinctly not beyond the realms if possibility. Scary.

I think it is largely beyond the realms of possibility and it is certainly no more likely because of the grants than it was before it.

No one can say for sure at this juncture, but we'll fall into optimistic or pessimistic camps. One thing we can say for sure though is that the glass isn't full any more.

[The Port]

I think that the grants issue in its present format is largely irrelevant. Whether you are paid directly e.g. holiday fund or grant it's either payment or benefit in kind - same thing. I take the revenue here. It may even be the strict legal view i don't know. What I do say is that we should be looking out for the next train coming down the line. I seem to recall some years ago that the sponsor of a county team wanted to take over the complete running of the team. Wisely the County Board in question would have nothing to do with it. This really would have been the thin edge of the wedge. These type of people don't go away you know but tend to rear their head in another form with a revised strategy. Watch this space

[orangeman]

DFS - what saddens me about this issue is that it is very divisive and has been made more divisive by the GPA threat to strike - the GAA is a great organisation and we didn't need a strike - we didn't need grants - but it was the GPA who pushed the boat out here - not the gaa - and the GAA will suffer long term as a result. IMO

[ONeill]

Then it boils down to what then constitutes as "rewarded". I pointed out a boys or girls u12 team getting a trip as a "reward" for their efforts from their club. Similarly a county squad getting to go on a trip abroad with expenses paid by the county board is often made as a reward for their efforts. The two scenarios are more or less the same, however in the latter pro-grant arguers say that team holidays are as much pay-for-play as the awarding of the grants are. If that's the case then the u12 trip must also count as "pay-for-play".

In fact if you really want to stretch it, lets look at other things that people are given for their service. An Intercounty squad given a set of boots, a tracksuit and a kitbag each at the start of the season? Pay for play. Staying overnight in a hotel before a big championship match? Well its not coming out of the player's pockets that's for sure, so pay for play. Medals presented to underage players who win a county league while the club says they can keep the jerseys they won it with. Medals are paid for by the county board, jerseys by the club. Pay for play. A couple of years ago I was awarded a trophy by the GAA President at an awards night. Offaly Bog Oak, gotta be worth a few quid, so surely pay for play.

Erm, the only people thinking it's 'pay-for-play' are the anti-grant mob.

[ONeill]

No.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

DFS - what saddens me about this issue is that it is very divisive and has been made more divisive by the GPA threat to strike - the GAA is a great organisation and we didn't need a strike - we didn't need grants - but it was the GPA who pushed the boat out here - not the gaa - and the GAA will suffer long term as a result. IMO

Orangeman - The issue is divisive I agree however the issue has been ongoing for nearly 5 years since tax breaks were brought in by McCreevy and Sean McCague as the GAA president at the time commented how it was unfair that GAA players were being discriminated against (note a GAA president making that point).....there was an agreement between the GAA/GPA that grants were acceptable and this was agreed with the Govt...the issue arose as to who would distribute the funding and if it hadn't been for the strike threat then the issue still wouldn't be resolved....at times something has to be threatened in order to force the solving of a problem...


Tram - Do you really think so little of county players that they would refuse to play for their club (considering they are unlikely to be as most counties don't let them play during county season) in order to maybe get another 100/200 Euros?

[ONeill]

Payments to managers/players/trainers/students. Only those were more pay-for-play than anything. That came from your money you spent on attending/supporting GAA. The govn grants are not.

Does that not piss you off more than govn grants? That Paddy Murphy was getting £***** a year to manage your club side from money you spent in and around your club?

[Zulu]

The two scenarios are more or less the same, however in the latter pro-grant arguers say that team holidays are as much pay-for-play as the awarding of the grants are.

No we are not Tram, what we are saying (If I can speak for us all) is that neither are pay for play. I don't think team holidays or student grants are pay for play and nor do I think the govt. grants are.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Zulu - That is pretty much that alright....

Or it could be put that - It is accepted that players/students etc receive holidays/grants already and that we have no problem with these being received - repeat no problem whatsoever......however when you argue against Govt grants on the basis that the GAA is a wholly AMATEUR organisation then you believe that no-one should get paid  for being a player or receive benefits over and above expenses then you can't accept that holidays/grants are acceptable....

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Tram - Do you really think so little of county players that they would refuse to play for their club (considering they are unlikely to be as most counties don't let them play during county season) in order to maybe get another 100/200 Euros?

A small amount of them - yes.

So no doubt you also a very low opinion of every club that pays players/managers etc also?