Frank McGuigan on grants

[ONeill]

Your arguments are weakening.

1. This money is regulated insofar that we know how much it is, where it's going to and where it came from, unlike the majority of payments floating about in GAA.

2. Those in favour of grants are not calling for the GAA to outlaw student payments/expenses, far from it. We're highlighting how what you call pay-for-play has always existed. Yet because it was unseen or took various forms it was ok in the eyes of the vast majority

So, that makes your post redundant.

Now, I'm done on this - you can even call me an oompa-loompa and I'll take her silently. I wish you a prosperous and lucrative New Year.

[lynchbhoy]

Your arguments are weakening.

1. This money is regulated insofar that we know how much it is, where it's going to and where it came from, unlike the majority of payments floating about in GAA.

2. Those in favour of grants are not calling for the GAA to outlaw student payments/expenses, far from it. We're highlighting how what you call pay-for-play has always existed. Yet because it was unseen or took various forms it was ok in the eyes of the vast majority

So, that makes your post redundant.

Now, I'm done on this - you can even call me an oompa-loompa and I'll take her silently. I wish you a prosperous and lucrative New Year.

bottom line is that pay for play is against the ethos of the organisation.
I take it that you are not as black and white in reality?
Do you treat all cases in the classrome with the same degree of discipline ? Do you send every transgressor to the headmaster/headmistress?
Or do you beleive that some indiscretions are not outwith the ethos of the classroom and apply a varying sliding scale of action towards this?
Well I presume you are not that robotic and use judgement rather than the same 'sending to headmaster' punishment for all cases from whispering amongst kids to sticking compass needles in the erse of another child etc.

Life is like that from the classroom to the (real) workplace.
Also in organisations like our own.
I do not agree that these 'other payments' can be considered the same ballpark as pay for play.
But thats my opinion, and while extreme (as per usual) is not too far from the reflections of most ordinary GAA members throughout the country that I have heard so far.

Best of luck in the new year yourself.
Its always lucrative for moi ! thanks!

[orangeman]

No matter about the pros and cons of this so called "grants issue" we are getting some very healthy,well thought out and articulate discussion.

Ih ave one question for you O'Neill, so feel free to come back in again ( and by the way I wish you all a prosperous but most importantly healthy New Year ! ) -

The question to you O'Neill is this - do you sincerely believe that in 4 years time the "grant monies" will be at the same or close to the same level as the £ 1500 max that it is presently ? Will the amount be significantly higher in 4 years time ?

[spectator]

...be it 'pithy' or whatever, ... So my point I think is real, and a huge cause for the requirement of external managers to a myriad of teams.
Sad as it may sound, it is real for the majority of teams that I am familiar with, and don't expect the trend exists only in them.
Its human nature and you cant change that.

Pithy - brief, forceful, and meaningful in expression; full of vigor, substance, or meaning: a pithy observation.


I was agreeing with your observation lynchboy & in quoting you i was attempting to understand the distrust of change which imo at least partly underpins the anti-grants position.

But look, if members are unhappy with the direction in which the GAA leadership has brought the GAA in recent years, they should try and address these issues with the leadership. Continually venting their spleen at the players may have seriously divisive consequences into the future.

James Horan's article hit the nail on the head - blaming & attacking the players is a smokescreen. What's really happening is that the GAA has been mis-managed & is now bursting at the seams from the various pressures which have built up within it, as a result. The players aren't the only party who should have their actions questioned.

The best tactic for the anti-grants side now is to initiate a major debate on Rule 11. Congress should be a lively place this year.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

No matter about the pros and cons of this so called "grants issue" we are getting some very healthy,well thought out and articulate discussion.

Ih ave one question for you O'Neill, so feel free to come back in again ( and by the way I wish you all a prosperous but most importantly healthy New Year ! ) -

The question to you O'Neill is this - do you sincerely believe that in 4 years time the "grant monies" will be at the same or close to the same level as the £ 1500 max that it is presently ? Will the amount be significantly higher in 4 years time ?

Orangeman - It is wholly dependant on what the GOVT decide is available as a grant to the organisation as a whole...it has been agreed and the GPA have said that "THE GAA ISN'T OBLIDGED TO PAY THE GRANT IF THE GOVT REMOVES OR REDUCES IT"...

[orangeman]

So DFS - with thst said, if the govt take away the grant in 4 years time, wil the players / GPA / Dessie be happy to lose the grant ? Will they ask for the GAA to fill the void ?

[DUBSFORSAM1]

So DFS - with thst said, if the govt take away the grant in 4 years time, wil the players / GPA / Dessie be happy to lose the grant ? Will they ask for the GAA to fill the void ?

The GPA/Dessie etc have already said that they won't expectet the GAA to fill the void.....what more can they do?

[orangeman]

And you seriously believe that do you ?? 

[ONeill]

The question to you O'Neill is this - do you sincerely believe that in 4 years time the "grant monies" will be at the same or close to the same level as the £ 1500 max that it is presently ? Will the amount be significantly higher in 4 years time ?

I'd predict, as with most things, it'll rise. With the amount the GAA generates for the govn I'd imagine the grants are here to stay.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

striking for money (grant) = pay for play, unless someone can erase my understanding of the English language

I cannot see how one = the other. The threat of a strike was crazy, ill-advised and would have had little or no support. Farrell thought this was the best way to put pressure on the govn to get a move-on on their promises. Although it worked, it could have sounded the death knell for the organisation if acted upon. Farrell knew the months of Novemeber and December bought time and made it an empty threat but it put the media focus fiercely in the govn's court. The GPA came out of that episode badly in terms of garnering public support.

However, for that to be your sole premise for describing govn grants as pay-for-play, well then, I'll never understand your concept of he English language. For those who voted in favour, it was on principle and equality

The players threatened not to play, unless they got money. Please explain to me exactly how that does not equate to getting paid to play, at a fundamental level (completely immaterial whence the money comes, be it a grant, singular payment, whatever)*.

In fairness O'Neill, I'd estimate that 99% players see it your way too, that because this isn't a salaried situation it doesn't amount to pay-for-play, but I would put it to you that you're actually in denial -- you see shades of grey where I only see black and white, such is the pivotal fundamentality of this particular issue. The Rubicon has been crossed, and it's a completely altered vista.

* That dawned on Philly Jordan a few weeks back.

[ONeill]

Jaysus will ye give me space to get over the Antrim/Queens postponement.....

[orangeman]

Can't say I disagree with you there FOSB

O'Neill to be fair to him concedes that the "grant" will rise whereas some like DFS actually believe that we will revert to the status quo if the govt rescind the grants in 4 years time.

I think most people would accept that the grants are expected to rise and that we've crossed a line that where we can't go back on.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Jaysus will ye give me space to get over the Antrim/Queens postponement.....

Take her easy, no mad rush 

[ONeill]

Jaysus will ye give me space to get over the Antrim/Queens postponement.....

Take her easy, no mad rush 

TBH FoSB I honestly cannot be bothered discussing this anymore on the board. It's the same over and over. 'I'll PM my answers to your questions.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

TBH FoSB I honestly cannot be bothered discussing this anymore on the board. It's the same over and over. 'I'll PM my answers to your questions.

No worries, and no need for the PM, I can read back (if so inclined  ).