Will the grants stop you volunteering for your club/county??

[passedit]

rugby has def suffered because of turning professional.
Had an example retold to me a month or two ago by a friend and club member of Carlow rugby club. the professionalism mix with amateurs caused a hell of a lot of problems in and for the club/team.
A lot of people did take a step back from previously voluntary duties as a result.

I am stopping my own coaching duties now. I am thinking of doing a u-turn and taking money and heading out to coach/train or manage some interested smaller clubs in kildare and meath.
That would be a nice bit of money to be had and somewhere in the region of €1000- 1200 per month just for traning duties rising to more should I train more then twice a week, or attend matches or even higher again if I am to actualy manage the side.
I know there is feck all success expectation out of a couple of these teams....

but if our organisation is not ignoring rule 11, and players are benefiting from pay for play, then I think the precedent means I am as entitled to go make money from my 'talents' also.....

Compare what's on offer to a journeyman ex footballer with minimal managerial experience against the top level of these grants and ask yourself do the GPA not have a case?

[lynchbhoy]

Compare what's on offer to a journeyman ex footballer with minimal managerial experience against the top level of these grants and ask yourself do the GPA not have a case?

no - I think I would be as wrong as the players, but they are the guys who get the actual benefit of playing the game - while not easy , it is the part of the whole equation that EVERYONE wants to be part of. Kids aspire to it, lesser skilled players dream of it, uncommitted lads drunkenly state that only for the drink they could be part of it, managers/trainers/coaches/kit men/club chairmen and officials all participate and claim some chit of it - but only the actual players play.
Therefore the case could be made for external people offering up their spare time - to be paid for their time , effort and strategies etc.
So while I see a case for external managers being paid, I see no case other than to yet again slightly up the 'expenses' of the players.
That is the only offering that I feel is palatable and acceptable.

If I go to your house Passedit, and create a nicely landscaped garden - would you expect me to do it for nothing?
Its not my core business, but its something that I also do for people at times (family only) - because I am reasonably good at it.
Same goes for football training.
Players demand a top quality manager- usually wont accept a guy from the club, or from a rival club or often from outwith the county itself.
So given that the guy comes in - can he honestly do it for free?
The players will always play (though problems arise if the manager is not good etc and the season is fcuked).
GAA need to create an acceptable managers payment directive, making potential managers/trainers join a group of trained and approved personel - so clubs can know what to pay and tell managers/trainers to feck off if they are not approved and have a pay scale that must be adhered to. Otherwise internal club men get the job.
This brings that particular episode into the open and 'de-criminalises' managers getting paid - as pointed out, they are more deserving of pay than players.

[lynchbhoy]

If you're against what the GPA is doing lynchboy, this is hardly the way to protest about it (i.e by joining the "what's in it for me brigade"). I hope you reconsider, as protesting from the inside with a clear conscience is the best way to turn this around.

'if you cant beat them , join them' !

pretty likely that I wont do it  to be honest skull. I have refused money and pay for play previously and it is not in my nature to accept cash for GAA activities (though a money grabbing fecker everywhere else given half a chance !).

But will have to wait and see what happens. There is too much happening in our oganisation that I do not like. I may as well go and join the Irish croquet association and see if I can bring in a bit of intimidation and shoulder charging into that game instead.

I am one of the guys who have/normally do/will give give their entire time to GAA and coaching management is something I have dabbled in since being in college - not just in the last couple of years , and yes 'limited success' is applicable - as passedit says(3 out of 4 stints at coaching yielding some kind of dividend - pretty accurate assesment otherwise).
However, right now, I dont like the way things are going or being done. I know plenty of volunteers who feel similar.
Certainly I do not want the players unhappy and want them all well looked after - more so with a large death/inj provision/accident provision fund in place than grants or pay for play.
I feel the herd is being manipulated and easily lead down the wrong path by guys with ulterior motive. This motive is to create GAA related 'union' jobs for themselves, a Media profile and thus leave themselves with a cash cow for themselves- otherwise a job in nursing or modelling eyebrow products will prob not bring home the bacon for too long for a coupl eof them.
GAA needs to take the players best interests and if some semblence of the GPA is to be used as a communication medium, fine - but I have no faith in these 'self elected' representatives.
Increased expenses is all I think is acceptable - under ethical and constitutional (rule 11) directives.

[Star Spangler]

I think people need to be realistic here. The amounts of money involved for teams like Louth and Down will be very insignificant, probably around €1500. Not a life changing amount by anyones standards.

I'm surprised just how many people are missing the point of this whole debate.

[Hound]

Havent been on in a while but needed a pick me up, and this has certainly lightened the mood. Hilarious stuff.

You'd swear pay for play has arrived, and some are doing their best to convince themselves and others that it has, even though not a single cent will come from GAA coffers to players for playing the game - and nor will a single cent be paid in the foreseeable future - the GAA members and hierarchy don't want it, so it won't happen. But where's the fun in having a bit of cop-on, fair better to keep the entertaining moaning begrudgery going   

[lynchbhoy]

Havent been on in a while but needed a pick me up, and this has certainly lightened the mood. Hilarious stuff.

You'd swear pay for play has arrived, and some are doing their best to convince themselves and others that it has, even though not a single cent will come from GAA coffers to players for playing the game - and nor will a single cent be paid in the foreseeable future - the GAA members and hierarchy don't want it, so it won't happen. But where's the fun in having a bit of cop-on, fair better to keep the entertaining moaning begrudgery going   

still contravenes rule 11 - obtenation of money because of playing gaelic games

[bottlethrower7]

Yes. Simple as. I won't be an active GAA member (or a GAA member of any description) in 2008.

[thejuice]

Is this any different from giving them holidays and boots and tracksuits etc. which they woud have to pay money for other wise. To me what it really means is that inter-county GAA players are recognised on the same level in this country as other top level sports people.

Anyway what are you all going to do with yourselves now that you've all decided to leave the GAA. the IAFL are always looking for players and volenteers, and we dont get anything from the government and we have to pay for our own kit usually comes to over £200, pay insurance of £100 to make sure theres an ambulance to take us to hospital at every game. We dont get travel expenses, and we get to travel the lenght and breath of the country playing games in Cork Belfast Dublin and elsewhere, forking out from our own pockets.But its not about the money we do it for the love of the game.

[lynchbhoy]

Is this any different from giving them holidays and boots and tracksuits etc. which they woud have to pay money for other wise. To me what it really means is that inter-county GAA players are recognised on the same level in this country as other top level sports people.

Anyway what are you all going to do with yourselves now that you've all decided to leave the GAA. the IAFL are always looking for players and volenteers, and we dont get anything from the government and we have to pay for our own kit usually comes to over £200, pay insurance of £100 to make sure theres an ambulance to take us to hospital at every game. We dont get travel expenses, and we get to travel the lenght and breath of the country playing games in Cork Belfast Dublin and elsewhere, forking out from our own pockets.But its not about the money we do it for the love of the game.

Juice - its a bit of a red herring this old  ' want to be recognised as top level athletes' etc etc etc
who has not recognised them ?
They get expenses , holidays, preferential treatment, jobs that would be beyond their reach if they were not inter county players.
That is a line trotted out by the gpa to attempt to justify their strike action decision etc

Whats IAFL?

I'll prob take up golf, or start taking work more seriously, a few courses I could have gone on prev that I wil have time to do now (time given prev to Gaelic games to the detriment of my working career).
Also intend spending more time on my wife, who has had to deal with non stop football this past two years. Prob unfairly.

[thejuice]

The goverment, since every other top level athlete at certain sports gets a grant or break from the gov why not GAA players.

also
www.irish-american-football.org

[lynchbhoy]

The goverment, since every other top level athlete at certain sports gets a grant or break from the gov why not GAA players.

also
www.irish-american-football.org

would have thought that because these people train almost full time, and this means they dont really have a 'day job' - ie these are professional athletes/sportspeople - there is a huge difference because our players are GIVEN jobs (GG a good example) and are amateurs.
The Jobs they are given are not physically or mentally taxing or demanding.

I know it wasnt training or the time spent playing Gaelic football that caused difficulty for Gerry McEntee about 12 years ago when he was a younger surgeon, I recall him telling me one night in the pub that it was because he was a Gaelic footballer ...if he played rugby, the hospital officials and board would not have complained about the time he spent playing or training, but would have endorsed it.
Plenty of fellas have overcome adversity and I dont see how the gpa can help.

[thejuice]

huge difference because our players are GIVEN jobs

Every last one of them? I suppose all the lads that got into college got there because they're GAA men.

[lynchbhoy]

huge difference because our players are GIVEN jobs

Every last one of them? I suppose all the lads that got into college got there because they're GAA men.

the ones that needed help....
You dont see too many county players on the dole or in heavy construction jobs like they used to be ...

I dont see the college comparison as being similar ?

[Pull Hard Hes No Relation]

Won't stop me being involved at an underage coaching level with club or county - reality is we volunteer because we love the game and want to pass it on to the next generation. Some players getting 1500 euro shouldn't change that - I think people need a relaity check here, how many clubs in Ireland aren't paying their managers to take senior teams even in division 3-4 of various county leagues.

Are people honestly suggesting that these managers do more to promote the game than the inter county players that pack Croke Park- I don't agree at all with pay for play but these grants certainly aren't pay for play and don't even come from the GAA coffers.

Volunterring has always been the backbone of the GAA and the GPA grants issue won't change that but the increasingly self centred outlook of modern society might.

[Buckass]

Workers in the Vineyard
20:1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.  And after agreeing with the workers for the standard wage, he sent them into his vineyard. When it was about nine o'clock in the morning, he went out again and saw others standing around in the marketplace without work. He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too, and I will give you whatever is right.' So they went. When he went out again about noon and three o'clock that afternoon, he did the same thing. And about five o'clock that afternoon he went out and found others standing around, and said to them, 'Why are you standing here all day without work?' They said to him, 'Because no one hired us.' He said to them, 'You go and work in the vineyard too.' When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, 'Call the workers and give the pay starting with the last hired until the first.' When those hired about five o'clock came, each received a full day's pay. 1 And when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more. But each one also received the standard wage. When they received it, they began to complain against the landowner, saying, 'These last fellows worked one hour, and you have made them equal to us who bore the hardship and burning heat of the day.' And the landowner replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am not treating you unfairly. Didn't you agree with me to work for the standard wage? Take what is yours and go. I want to give to this last man the same as I gave to you. Am I not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?' So the last will be first, and the first last."