Will you be cheering for NI tonight?

[nifan]

I enjoy seeing the english do badly, but its more to do with pettiness and media than actually disliking the english people - they are the local big boys.

Talkign about 800 years of oppression Why do so many, yourself included, support British clubs if they cant stand the british so much that its the reason you would site for despising a football team.

[Evil Genius]

I could give you 3 reasons why I hate England that has nothing to do with an 800 year old grudge as you call it.

Land of hope and Glory

Rule Britannia

God save the Queen

Surely in the 21st century it is embarrassing that dirges like these are heard in public.

Thereby proving my point entirely: they just see it as a football match, ffs, not a political, military, cultural or even musical rally  

[Evil Genius]

Reasons why Irish fans do not support England (except in my own case when they are playing the 6 county unionist team) when they're palying soccer, wars in the Malvinas etc

1. England has inflicted 800 years of oppression on Irish people and has planted settlers in the Northern part of their country which they still occupy to this day.

As far as Im aware Irish people have not pepetrated similar monstrous injustices on the English, hence the English have no grievances and no reason not to support the Irish football side, many of whom play with English clubs etc

Thereby proving my point entirely: they just see it as a football match, ffs, not a political, military, cultural or even musical rally   

[Great Leap Forward]

I could give you 3 reasons why I hate England that has nothing to do with an 800 year old grudge as you call it.

Land of hope and Glory

Rule Britannia

God save the Queen

Surely in the 21st century it is embarrassing that dirges like these are heard in public.

Thereby proving my point entirely: they just see it as a football match, ffs, not a political, military, cultural or even musical rally  

Are you therefore saying that the English are a more open-minded race than the Irish then?

[T Fearon]

For the slow learners on OWC the difference is simple. Irish people have many reasons to hate the English, the English have no reasons to hate the Irish. Simple as that.

If Englanders lived in a country part of which was given to Irish settlers and which the Irish government occupied, and the Irish army had butchered Englissh civilians etc over the last 800 years etc etc, you might find that English people might be a little less forthcoming in their support for Irish soccer teams or indeed anything Irish

[Zapatista]

Hardy:
"I suppose my question really is - how do people feel about the fact that the English (in general - I'm not including the National Front element)  support the Irish team enthusiastically when they're not involved themselves. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Should we tell them to stop?"

I think it's a much wider questuion than that. THe real question is why do they do that? I think it's their complete misunderstanding (through miseducation by the English powers and misrepersentation by Irish powers) of the real feeling towards English dominance in any walk of life. They simply don't know there is a problem with our relationship.

Actually, it is much simpler than Zapatista thinks. Your average England fan, for whatever reason, doesn't see a football match featuring the ROI team as being any cause to keep an 800 year-old political grudge going. They merely see a match which is featuring a neighbouring country, from whose shores many of their own ancestors came, involving players who ply their trade at English clubs and it is the habit of sports fans all over the world to try to establish some sort of "connection", or "affinity" with one of the teams in any match, in order to make it more intersting.

It might be equally valid to ask why more ROI fans don't support England when they are playing another country. [Btw, I neither need nor want an answer to that question, it was rhetorical]

And I think this my point exactly. They simply don't know that there is a problem.

As I'm sure you can see from the posts there is a poor relationship between the two.

I like to think most Irish people don't hold a 'political' grudge becuase of the last 800 years. Many of them just hold a 'political' grudge becuase of the last 50 years. But that's only one of the reasons they hold a grudge.

By the way, I wonder why the English dislike the Germans so much?

[Solomon Kane]

and if any manager of the real Ireland team had presided over a 3-0 home defeat to Iceland he would have been axed automatically.

Yet strangely Steve Staunton survived the 26 county splinter group's buggering by Cyprus.

[Mentalman]

and if any manager of the real Ireland team had presided over a 3-0 home defeat to Iceland he would have been axed automatically.

Yet strangely Steve Staunton survived the 26 county splinter group's buggering by Cyprus.

Touché!

[his holiness nb]

Good answer.

But indulge me - would you stick by your principles and shout for the opposition?

Depends how likely I am to get the shite kicked out of me 

If its likely I wouldnt, I wouldnt roar for them either.
I'd just sit quitely pretending to be neutral.

[his holiness nb]

Hardy:
"I suppose my question really is - how do people feel about the fact that the English (in general - I'm not including the National Front element)  support the Irish team enthusiastically when they're not involved themselves. Does it make you feel uncomfortable? Should we tell them to stop?"

I think it's a much wider questuion than that. THe real question is why do they do that? I think it's their complete misunderstanding (through miseducation by the English powers and misrepersentation by Irish powers) of the real feeling towards English dominance in any walk of life. They simply don't know there is a problem with our relationship.

Actually, it is much simpler than Zapatista thinks. Your average England fan, for whatever reason, doesn't see a football match featuring the ROI team as being any cause to keep an 800 year-old political grudge going. They merely see a match which is featuring a neighbouring country, from whose shores many of their own ancestors came, involving players who ply their trade at English clubs and it is the habit of sports fans all over the world to try to establish some sort of "connection", or "affinity" with one of the teams in any match, in order to make it more intersting.

It might be equally valid to ask why more ROI fans don't support England when they are playing another country. [Btw, I neither need nor want an answer to that question, it was rhetorical]

So basically the english soccer fans are a more open minded, neighbourly bunch who just like to see the wee guys nearby do well.
While we all cheer against them because of old political grudges.
EG, you come up with some shite but this takes the biscuit. You could write a book of reasons to dislike the English.
They dont have reasons to dislike us.
Also, your argument makes no sense when it comes to England V Germany or Argentina.

[Mentalman]

My two cents worth. I don't "hate" the English soccer team per se. I do hate the really sychophantic commentary and analysis on BBC/ITV/Sky, which means I don't feel sorry to see them fall flat on their faces so often. Strangley for just that reason I'll miss them from the tournament though. I mean every man is more than entitled to support his chosen country, but with England the inability to realise that the emperor is in fact starkers has lasted my whole life. They are a good international side in general, could do better with a truely good manager ( if the media laid off him ) but they are not amongst the very top tier i.e. Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy. That's not saying they couldn't beat any of teams on their day, but in general, they seem to have an expectation level that those countries are more entitled to - it's just not backed up by their history.

Now the English rugby team is totally different, but that's based on playing them competitvely at least once every year, and being on the end of alot of not very magnaminous beatings....until recently.

As to the average English soccer fan's attitudes to "us" that is basically, as pointed out above, down to a feeling of affinity, as the history is not as ingrained into them as us or say, to a lesser extent, Scots, and lots of them have Irish relatives. I mean if English folks were to be inhibited by their history they would have to make more apologies than any German, be afraid to travel to half the globe and only holiday in Southend - sounds good to me  

On a more general level, English people see us as errant cousins who wanted our own gaff because we were a little awkward. Or worse still as slightly backward God botherers, on all sides on the island as a whole.

On another point where does Lawro get off buttering his bread on both sides?

[Evil Genius]

I could give you 3 reasons why I hate England that has nothing to do with an 800 year old grudge as you call it.

Land of hope and Glory

Rule Britannia

God save the Queen

Surely in the 21st century it is embarrassing that dirges like these are heard in public.

Thereby proving my point entirely: they just see it as a football match, ffs, not a political, military, cultural or even musical rally  

Are you therefore saying that the English are a more open-minded race than the Irish then?

Not at all. I'm merely of the opinion that England soccer fans don't generally think in political terms when the ROI soccer team is playing, in the same way as some ROI fans appear to do when watching England play. That's all.

P.S. Only one of those three songs you cite is played at England games, so I fail to see how the other two might affect your attitude to the England soccer team, unless it is as part of an overall non-football related dislike of the country. 

[ziggysego]

Not at all. I'm merely of the opinion that England soccer fans don't generally think in political terms when the ROI soccer team is playing, in the same way as some ROI fans appear to do when watching England play. That's all.

P.S. Only one of those three songs you cite is played at England games, so I fail to see how the other two might affect your attitude to the England soccer team, unless it is as part of an overall non-football related dislike of the country. 

I hear what you're saying Evil Genius. All I can say is, for you to look at England when they are playing Germany or France to a lesser degree.

[Evil Genius]

For the slow learners on OWC the difference is simple. Irish people have many reasons to hate the English, the English have no reasons to hate the Irish. Simple as that.

If Englanders lived in a country part of which was given to Irish settlers and which the Irish government occupied, and the Irish army had butchered Englissh civilians etc over the last 800 years etc etc, you might find that English people might be a little less forthcoming in their support for Irish soccer teams or indeed anything Irish

I would say that somewhat fewer English people remember what happened in Ireland 800 years ago than recall what happened in Birmingham, Warrington, Guildford, Brighton, Canary Wharf etc. a whole lot more recently.

However, my point is that irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the respective grievances, a simple soccer match is no forum for carrying on political grudges.

And even if it were, aren't we continually being told by Irish Nationalists/Republicans that "the War is over, it's time to move on"?  

[deiseach]

Reading EG's take on this, I am reminded of the words of Andy Strickland in 90 Minutes when the Republic last played England in soccer, when he referred to the behaviour of "the violent majority" of their fans.