Who do we like the least?

[Maximus Marillius]

Evil I have been reading most of your posts. Got the jist of what your saying. I have a suggestion, there is a GAA club in south Belfast called St Brigid's. Now this club is relatively young and would be seen as a very broad minded club. For example I dont think they have a permanent pitch so the local ruby club Harlequins has allowed them to use their pitches. It seems there is quite a partnership developing between the two clubs. Now if you have a genuine interest in tasting GAA, this sounds like the place for you to wet your feet so to speak. Certainly not as intimidating as Erins Own Cargin or Kevin Lynchs Dungiven. I think you'll get a warm welcome and nobody will give a hoot whether your British, Irish or Northern Irish....now dont say your not from Belfast, sure its only a short drive now for someone like yourself to assess what the GAA is truely all about. Your safe there is no indoctrination ceremonies  

[dubnut]

Brilliant Max, not very likely though 

[Evil Genius]

Evil I have been reading most of your posts. Got the jist of what your saying. I have a suggestion, there is a GAA club in south Belfast called St Brigid's. Now this club is relatively young and would be seen as a very broad minded club. For example I dont think they have a permanent pitch so the local ruby club Harlequins has allowed them to use their pitches. It seems there is quite a partnership developing between the two clubs. Now if you have a genuine interest in tasting GAA, this sounds like the place for you to wet your feet so to speak. Certainly not as intimidating as Erins Own Cargin or Kevin Lynchs Dungiven. I think you'll get a warm welcome and nobody will give a hoot whether your British, Irish or Northern Irish....now dont say your not from Belfast, sure its only a short drive now for someone like yourself to assess what the GAA is truely all about. Your safe there is no indoctrination ceremonies  

I've no doubt that every word you say is true, Max. One of the things I have learned about GAA from this Board (and elsewhere) is that the organisation accommodates many different types of club and member, the great majority of whom are only there for the sport and the crack.
But I would ask you this, don't you think it an indictment that someone from my community should have to drive some way from their local parish in order to be certain of obtaining "a warm welcome", where "nobody will give a hoot" whether I'm British/Irish/N.Irish etc?
If, for example, someone from a Nationalist background were to express an interest in taking up GAA, would you have any difficulty in simply pointing him/her to the nearest club? Indeed, if it were someone from an "ethnic minority" or immigrant community, would you suggest he/she drive half way across the country? Of course not.
If we were to take your suggestion to its logical conclusion, we would all end up (in parts of the North, at least) with a kind of "apartheid", consisting of those clubs like St. Brigids, which may be entirely relaxed about such things, and those clubs (Kevin Lynch Dungiven perhaps?), where the "welcome" might be more that to be expected from the likes of Rosnarun:

Posted on: Today at 03:57:04 PMPosted by: rosnarun 
"yes you can be British and be from nothern ireland but what it makes you is either a traitor to Ireland or else Part of the invading english Take your pick"

P.S. I'm rather glad that my nearest club is not in Dungiven:
(From earlier this year)
Kevin Lynch's commemoration takes place on Sunday, July 30 in Dungiven. People are asked to assemble at The Grove at 12 noon.

Republican Sinn Féin will hold a commemoration in Dungiven on Saturday at the chapel gates at 7pm. The oration will be delivered by party president Ruairí Ó Brádaigh.

On Saturday afternoon, Kevin Lynch Hurling Club's minor team will play Ballycastle while the intermediate side will take on Cumann na Fuinseoige from Twinbrook in Belfast.

The opening ceremony for the new field starts at 2pm on Sunday and will be followed by a challenge hurling match between Kevin Lynch senior team and the current Kilkenny county senior champions, James Stephens.
The famous Kilkenny club, which added the 2005 all-Ireland club crown to its previous two national titles, will travel specially to Dungiven for the opening of Kevin Lynch Park. A commemorative booklet will be on sale in conjunction with the opening.

On Saturday evening Kevin Lynch and the Irish Hunger Strike will be launched at Saint Canice's GAA club, Dungiven, at 5pm. Martin McGuinness will be guest speaker.

Sharing the Platform Party at the naming ceremony were: Nicky Brennan, Michael Greenan and  Gerry Adams, as well as local figures "associated with" the INLA.

[rosnarun]

dont come into a barn and then start complaining about the smell of muck . you deliberatly come on to a GAA web site to antagonise and then claim not to feel welcome
the internet is full of  trolls like you .

[dubnut]

Your points are well written and in great detail Evil Genius, and politely made.
Which fools some people as to your intentions.

"local figures associated with the INLA"
Are you going to back that up, who? Associated how?
Thats a vague point but a mischievous one.

"But I would ask you this, don't you think it an indictment that someone from my community should have to drive some way from their local parish in order to be certain of obtaining "a warm welcome", where "nobody will give a hoot" whether I'm British/Irish/N.Irish etc?
If, for example, someone from a Nationalist background were to express an interest in taking up GAA, would you have any difficulty in simply pointing him/her to the nearest club? Indeed, if it were someone from an "ethnic minority" or immigrant community, would you suggest he/she drive half way across the country? Of course not"

Thats the North for you. Not the GAA. Do you think you would be ok until you walked into the GAA club??!??
If I were to walk into Windsor park with a big Dublin accent and got attacked I wouldnt blame "soccer" as an entire organisation.

Answer me one question, should any stand or ground named after a 1916 or civil war hero have its name changed?
Thats a straight forward one which yes or no will do nicely.

[lynchbhoy]

having gone off an a huge tangent I fail to see what you are talking about evil person!

I think you are not discussing the point of the thread who do some people not like - is in relation to GAA and the joke
was in adding the token category 'Brits' in it.

when people think of 'brits' they are almost entirely thinking of 'English'
which is how most English people also think.
A lot of Welsh couldnt care less and a large maybe even 50% of Scots do not want to be considered british.

the united kingdowm of great Britain AND NI would indicate that NI is not actually British but us a state on a par with it and it all comes under the remit of the united Kingdom.
How you profess anything otherwise is highly amusing !

Anyhow, back to the point..
If any non national, non-nationalist and even prod went to play hurling with Kevin Lynch's Dungiven, I an 99% sure these people would be accepted and welcomed into the club
I would say you are being very prejudicial here by saying they wouldnt be!
This welcoming would go for more or less any GAA club.

If people wont join them for reasons of their own prejudices - thats hardly the fault of the GAA

[Evil Genius]

dont come into a barn and then start complaining about the smell of muck . you deliberatly come on to a GAA web site to antagonise and then claim not to feel welcome
the internet is full of  trolls like you .

As I have tried throughout my posts to point out, ultimately, the GAA may behave how it likes. This includes associating itself with controversial contemporary paramilitary figures by the naming of clubs, stadia and tournaments etc.
However, what I do object to is the notion that Gaelic sports are open to all, when such activities clearly deter one fifth (approx) of the population of Ireland.
And these aspects are not merely symbolic, either. When it comes to its Rulebook, we may contrast the GAA ban on "foreign" sports being strictly enforced when the Omagh Bomb Charity applied to hold a fundraising soccer match in the Omagh GAA grounds (permission denied), as against the recent inability to enforce the rule against political demonstrations over the recent Hunger Strike Commemorations at Casement.

Btw, do your fellow GAA fans appreciate your choice of metaphor ("smells", "barns" and "muck") to describe your Association? 

[Evil Genius]

Thats the North for you. Not the GAA. Do you think you would be ok until you walked into the GAA club??!??
If I were to walk into Windsor park with a big Dublin accent and got attacked I wouldnt blame "soccer" as an entire organisation.

Answer me one question, should any stand or ground named after a 1916 or civil war hero have its name changed?
Thats a straight forward one which yes or no will do nicely.

I would not expect to be "attacked" upon walking into any GAA club. Nor would I provoke any such attack by expressing my personal political opinions, either. But that is the problem; since at certain GAA clubs, by virtue simply of my Membership, I would be endorsing figures and events which have a clear political character (and a somewhat militant character, at that). I know of no other sport in Ireland which forces me into, or tolerates, such a situation.

As for the chances of your being attacked in Windsor Park for your big Dublin accent, I think it's safe to say you'd be OK, since it never did Pat Fenlon any harm when he was winning an Irish League Champions medal with Linfield in 1994! In fact, "Billy", as the fans nicknamed him (!), was immensely popular! Likewise, I don't think your GAA membership would be any great barrier, either, seeing as how Linfield proved happy to provide their local West Belfast Camogie Club with facilities, when they were in a fix recently!
However, should anything happen to you, I would have no hesitation in condemning it without reservation, as indeed I would any incidents, images or icons of a clearly partisan nature associated with my sport.

As for associations with 1916 or the Civil War, whilst I may privately find such references contrary to my own tastes, I also accept that that was all long before my era, reflecting as it does, different people in different times. Therefore, I would accept that as being part of the history of the game.
I do not, however, consider that sport should be associated with modern-day "activists", whether "Loyalist" or Republican.
(Btw, if that answer is too long for you, you can take it as a simple "No")

[pintsofguinness]

Where did I try to determine what you are? I couldn't care less if you consider yourself to be British, Duth, French or whatever else.  I tried to explain to you what nationalists meant when they talked about the "brits".  Are you having trouble understanding that?

When an Irish nationalist starts sounding off about "the hateful Brits", he/she might actually choose more accurate terminology, otherwise, a million of his/her neighbours on this island might take exception.
It's a bit like me spouting off about hating GAA fans, when I really only mean those from County ... (well, I'll let you fill in the missing word as you choose)
Are you having trouble understanding that?

I couldn't care less who takes exception to anything I say, if you're stupid enough or so intent on being the victim that you take offence that's your own problem.  Having lived and worked in England I know plenty of British people,  one's without idenity crisis, who had no trouble understanding my (or other Irish people's) dislike of the British and who understood perfectly what I meant when I'd say so. 
But you go ahead and play the victim, act astonished when an Irish nationalist states they don't like Britain.

I would not expect to be "attacked" upon walking into any GAA club. Nor would I provoke any such attack by expressing my personal political opinions, either. But that is the problem; since at certain GAA clubs, by virtue simply of my Membership, I would be endorsing figures and events which have a clear political character (and a somewhat militant character, at that). I know of no other sport in Ireland which forces me into, or tolerates, such a situation.

What exactly do you think you'd be endorsing?  There are AGMs where you're free to voice your concerns or objections.

But I would ask you this, don't you think it an indictment that someone from my community should have to drive some way from their local parish in order to be certain of obtaining "a warm welcome", where "nobody will give a hoot" whether I'm British/Irish/N.Irish etc?

Go to the club in your local parish then.

[Evil Genius]

Anyhow, back to the point..
If any non national, non-nationalist and even prod went to play hurling with Kevin Lynch's Dungiven, I an 99% sure these people would be accepted and welcomed into the club
I would say you are being very prejudicial here by saying they wouldnt be!
This welcoming would go for more or less any GAA club.

If people wont join them for reasons of their own prejudices - thats hardly the fault of the GAA

You may well be right about the reception at Kevin Lynch, Dungiven, but that is hardly the point. Lynch was an active member of the INLA. I would no more wish to be associated with that organisation than I would with the LVF or UFF, by e.g. attending a soccer match at "Michael Stone Memorial FC", or "Billy Wright United FC" (not that such clubs would ever be tolerated by the IFA). Would you?

(Come to think of it, seeing as Billy Wright is reputed to have played GAA when a boy growing up in South Armagh, would you be happy to see a GAA club named after him? No? I thought not...)

[pintsofguinness]

You may well be right about the reception at Kevin Lynch, Dungiven, but that is hardly the point. Lynch was an active member of the INLA. I would no more wish to be associated with that organisation than I would with the LVF or UFF,

So are you saying anyone that's a member of the Kevin Lynch club is "associated" with the INLA?

(Come to think of it, seeing as Billy Wright is reputed to have played GAA when a boy growing up in South Armagh, would you be happy to see a GAA club named after him?

I couldnt care less.

[Evil Genius]

I couldn't care less who takes exception to anything I say, if you're stupid enough or so intent on being the victim that you take offence that's your own problem.  Having lived and worked in England I know plenty of British people,  one's without idenity crisis, who had no trouble understanding my (or other Irish people's) dislike of the British and who understood perfectly what I meant when I'd say so. 
But you go ahead and play the victim, act astonished when an Irish nationalist states they don't like Britain.

I would not expect to be "attacked" upon walking into any GAA club. Nor would I provoke any such attack by expressing my personal political opinions, either. But that is the problem; since at certain GAA clubs, by virtue simply of my Membership, I would be endorsing figures and events which have a clear political character (and a somewhat militant character, at that). I know of no other sport in Ireland which forces me into, or tolerates, such a situation.

What exactly do you think you'd be endorsing?  There are AGMs where you're free to voice your concerns or objections.

But I would ask you this, don't you think it an indictment that someone from my community should have to drive some way from their local parish in order to be certain of obtaining "a warm welcome", where "nobody will give a hoot" whether I'm British/Irish/N.Irish etc?

Go to the club in your local parish then.

This was not a simple case of "Irish Nationalists stating that they don't like the English"; such a situation neither "astonishes" me, nor makes me feel in any way "victimised". Nor do I suffer from any "identity crisis", either, thank you very much.

However, your revisionist attempt to recharacterise the nature of the Poll is clearly disingenuous. What caused me originally to take exception was a Poll whereby GAA fans stated, however humourously or light-heartedly, that they "hate the Brits".
All I was did essentially was to try to point out three things:
1. The epithet "Brits" applies not only to those people from the other side of the Irish Sea who speak with an English accent; rather, it also applies, "hateful" or otherwise, to around one million of your fellow islanders;
2. This "blindspot" precisely demonstrates just how little comprehension some GAA supporters have of "the other million";
3. The combination of ignorance, indifference and occasional antagonism towards your fellow islanders explains exactly how and why the GAA only appears to recognise one type of islander as being truly "Irish" i.e. those who endorse the "right" kind of politics.

All of which, I repeat, is fair enough - I don't expect for one moment, never mind demand, that the GAA should accede to me when determining what sort of organisation it should be.

However, neither should that organisation be "astonished", or feel "victimised" when I and others deplore it for mixing politics with sport, at the same time as it claims to be open equally to all.

(On a more specific note, if Kevin Lynch, Dungiven were to be my local GAA club, what reception do you think I would receive if I were to pay my subscription, join and then at the next AGM, propose that the club name be changed to something less "partisan", on the basis that mixing politics with sport should be avoided wherever possible?  )

[dubnut]

"As for the chances of your being attacked in Windsor Park for your big Dublin accent, I think it's safe to say you'd be OK, since it never did Pat Fenlon any harm when he was winning an Irish League Champions medal with Linfield in 1994! In fact, "Billy", as the fans nicknamed him (!), was immensely popular!"

Pat Fenlon wasnt mingling in the crowd! A mate of mine played in the North a few years back and got all sorts of vicious vile abuse in windsor park for being a "dirty f**king taig"

Back up your INLA comment by the way!

p.s. dont be so patronising with your posts, it doesnt make you look clever.

[Evil Genius]

So are you saying anyone that's a member of the Kevin Lynch club is "associated" with the INLA?

(Come to think of it, seeing as Billy Wright is reputed to have played GAA when a boy growing up in South Armagh, would you be happy to see a GAA club named after him?

I couldnt care less.

Re your first point: Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying; I fail to see how it could be any different 

As for Billy Wright GAA club, perhaps you dont mind being associated with murderous, drug-dealing sectarian bigots like him or Kevin Lynch, but I do. And that counts equally in the context of GAA, soccer, rugby or any other sport. 

[dubnut]

Evil Genius, I'll tell you how you can prove you are not just here on the wind up, dont post again on this thread.

If you continue into an 8th or 9th page it just proves my earlier points about you.

And the smug patronising language makes you look like an ass, not clever.
But no doubt you will want the last word