Who do we like the least?

[Evil Genius]

Which is really the crux of my whole objection to this thread - when people post that they "Hate the Brits", notwithstanding that it is hardly an entirely serious exercise (since revised), I am merely trying to point out that there are almost one million of their fellow Irishmen and women sharing this island with them, who most decidedly fall within that category.

and

We were not parachuted in and we're not going to leave; we're every bit as Irish as anyone else, regardless of whether anyone else recognises that, including the GAA.

a bit contradictory is it not - professing to be both?

Not at all. Would you tell an Englishman he is not British? Or a Scotsman or Welshman? (Well, some of them, anyhow!)

You are Irish. Does that mean you are not also European?

It's really a very simple concept: I am British by virtue of being a citizen of the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I am Irish by virtue of coming from Ireland. And more specifically I am Northern Irish, or an Ulsterman, if you prefer. On which note, I've got an appointment with a weekend's drinking which i don't want to miss!

Enjoy your weekend.  

[OdoSkimodo]

Indeed, there are very many "up North" playing GAA sports; it's just that very few of them come from the Unionist community (or "the "Brits" as they are sometimes known). Perhaps one of the reasons for this might be that they have somehow concluded that they might be "hated" by certain elements from within the GAA Community?

I'm from the north and no one I know has ever called a protestant or unionist 'a brit'. When the term brits is used by a nationalist in the north it refers almost exclusively to the english. Indeed I would consider most protestants or unionistas as Irish although I accept you may or may not have the same viewpoint.  Could it be evil genius that you're a bit of a mope?

[Evil Genius]

I'm from the north and no one I know has ever called a protestant or unionist 'a brit'. When the term brits is used by a nationalist in the north it refers almost exclusively to the english. Indeed I would consider most protestants or unionistas as Irish although I accept you may or may not have the same viewpoint.  Could it be evil genius that you're a bit of a mope?

If I called my cat a dog, would that make it bark?

I am from NI, which means I am Irish and I am British. I do not feel "oppressed" by that; nor does it give me the right to "oppress" others who may not be so.
You may call me what you like, since I am now about to open my first can of stout of the weekend and I no longer give a flying one! 

[dubnut]

Nice to see you checking out without answering my question 

"Please also explain the "contemporary demands" they are ignoring. And please for the love of god keep it short!"

[Turlough O Carolan]

You are Irish. Does that mean you are not also European?

Ireland is part of Europe. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

[OdoSkimodo]

It's a poll which you claim says that a significant proportion of gaa people hate our unionist friends. This I say is wrong because a brit to a gaa person is an englishman (sweeping statement but I would say fairly accurate). I am not denying you the right to be what you want, just asking you not to cry over milk that hasn't been spilt

If I called my cat a dog, would that make it bark?

By the way you can call your cat lolita and violate it if you want for all i care

[lynchbhoy]

Which is really the crux of my whole objection to this thread - when people post that they "Hate the Brits", notwithstanding that it is hardly an entirely serious exercise (since revised), I am merely trying to point out that there are almost one million of their fellow Irishmen and women sharing this island with them, who most decidedly fall within that category.

and

We were not parachuted in and we're not going to leave; we're every bit as Irish as anyone else, regardless of whether anyone else recognises that, including the GAA.

a bit contradictory is it not - professing to be both?

Not at all. Would you tell an Englishman he is not British? Or a Scotsman or Welshman? (Well, some of them, anyhow!)

You are Irish. Does that mean you are not also European?

It's really a very simple concept: I am British by virtue of being a citizen of the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I am Irish by virtue of coming from Ireland. And more specifically I am Northern Irish, or an Ulsterman, if you prefer.

`


apples and oranges - if you'll excuse the pun

[armaghniac]

If I called my cat a dog, would that make it bark?

I am from NI, which means I am Irish and I am British.

So, you are from NI, this does not make you British. NI is in Union with Britain, this should not mean that it becomes Britain. Ireland is in the European Union with Italy, it is not Italian.

[pintsofguinness]

Jesus EG if you think those things amount to a bad reaction you've lived a very sheltered life.  I have had a lot worse said to me (and it's not as if I bring it on myself)  and so has a lot of others.
I think you'll also find when nationalists (for the want of a better word) refer to the "brits" they aren't talking about the protesant/unionist people in the north nor are they talking about ordinary English people  or the scots or the welsh, they are refering the British army and British rule in Ireland.  But I suspect you already knew that.

I have, indeed, been called a hell of a sight worse, but as I indicated earlier, it doesn't "hurt" me in the slightest! What I was alluding to was not the personal nature of any abuse (which on this thread has been unremarkable); rather, it was the implication that I have no "right" to comment or venture an opinion, either because I am not a keen GAA fan, and/or because I hold a different political outlook to the great majority on this Board.
To which I say: "Fair enough", it's a free country. However, as an outsider, it really doesn't project a welcoming image for "non-conformists" and is contrary to the official face of GAA, which likes to think of itself as being open to all.

On your second point ("Brits" = Army/Establishment etc), I'm sorry, but I can't let you get away with that, since it is for me to determine what I am, not you! Now, you may think I'm deluded/ weak/ idiotic/pitiable etc for choosing to characterise myself as "British", but so be it, since that's what I am.
You have no more right to tell me that I am not British, than I would have to tell any of my friends and neighbours in NI that they cannot be Irish (i.e. that they must somehow only be Brits).
Which is really the crux of my whole objection to this thread - when people post that they "Hate the Brits", notwithstanding that it is hardly an entirely serious exercise (since revised), I am merely trying to point out that there are almost one million of their fellow Irishmen and women sharing this island with them, who most decidedly fall within that category.
We were not parachuted in and we're not going to leave; we're every bit as Irish as anyone else, regardless of whether anyone else recognises that, including the GAA.
In fact, the only difference is that politically speaking, we prefer to live in one constituent part of the Union, along with the English, Scots and Welsh.
And as far as I'm concerned, it is a weakness of the GAA that it continues to maintain this "political qualification" (i.e. Irish = Nationalist), into the 21 st Century, when old quarrels may safely be consigned to the history books.

Where did I try to determine what you are? I couldn't care less if you consider yourself to be British, Duth, French or whatever else.  I tried to explain to you what nationalists meant when they talked about the "brits".  Are you having trouble understanding that?

[Evil Genius]

"by their practices of identifying themselves with partisan political figures (e.g. stadia, clubs, tournaments etc named after contemporary Republican activists) and by their determination to cling onto the principles of their 19th Century founders in the face of contemporary demands, they prove daily that this simply is not the case"

Ok, so should we change the stadium names and club names to suit you?

And while we are at it should we change the names of the streets and train stations named after these Irish heroes?

Please also explain the "contemporary demands" they are ignoring. And please for the love of god keep it short!

Seeing as you seemed desperate for a reply on Friday pm (when I was desperate for a drink!), here goes:

The GAA may name clubs, tournaments & stadia after whoever they like. And when they name them after contemporary paramilitary killers and the like, people will react accordingly. I daresay the same would apply for you if your local soccer or rugby club were to be named after e.g. Michael Stone or Billy Wright.
Personally, I would have nothing to do with any such practices in any sport, since I deplore the mixing of sport and politics where avoidable, especially in a place like NI, where wounds are still raw for people on all sides.

As for Irish Street and Station names, the Government of the Republic can name them after whoever the hell they like, since that is a political decision and has nothing to do with sport generally, or the GAA specifically.

As for my reference to "contemporary demands", I was referring to the notion that in the 21st Century, it is inappropriate to mix sport and poilitics, especially in Ireland, where politics has caused such division and mistrust, whereas sport has the potential to bring together people of all backgrounds in comradeship and understanding.
All sports with a long history have developed and moved on over the decades. For example, Baseball had segregated Leagues right up until the 1950's (I think); South African rugby rigidly enforced the Apartheid system; Rugby Union worldwide held on to (a sham) Amateurism officially, long after it had broken down unofficially; English cricket insisted on Captains and Administrators being "Gentlemen" (amateurs), in control of mere "Players" (professionals) and Soccer, too, has any number of embarrassing episodes in its past, which needed sweeping away.
Whereas, with GAA, whilst I fully understand the importance and emotional hold its historical mix of politics and sport once held, I feel strongly that to maintain this idea that Irish games are really only for Irish people of one particular political persuasion is an anachronism that desreves to be consigned to the museum at Croke Park.

I hope that was short enough for you; when faced with the choice between giving such issues a considered and reasoned answer, or a mere "soundbite", I prefer the former.

[Evil Genius]

You are Irish. Does that mean you are not also European?

Ireland is part of Europe. Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK, however. The clue is in the full title: "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
This also explains why NI is commonly held to be "British": technically speaking, it might more properly be termed "United Kingdomish", but that would be a bit silly.

[Evil Genius]

apples and oranges - if you'll excuse the pun

I understand the pun, but not the analogy. As e.g. an Italian, you can be part of the European Union and therefore a European, whilst remaining an Italian.
I am an Irishman - more specifically a Northern Irishman - who is also a member of the United Kingdom and therefore British ("United Kingdomish"!). I remain Irish.

[Evil Genius]

So, you are from NI, this does not make you British. NI is in Union with Britain, this should not mean that it becomes Britain. Ireland is in the European Union with Italy, it is not Italian.

You clearly don't understand the difference between a Union and an Alliance.
NI is a member of the UK, just the same as England, Scotland and Wales. As a Northern Irishman, I am not English, Scots or Welsh and none of those is Northern Irish. By the same token, a Scot is not Welsh or English, or vice versa.
However, all of us are British (should we so wish to define ourselves).

[Evil Genius]

Where did I try to determine what you are? I couldn't care less if you consider yourself to be British, Duth, French or whatever else.  I tried to explain to you what nationalists meant when they talked about the "brits".  Are you having trouble understanding that?

When an Irish nationalist starts sounding off about "the hateful Brits", he/she might actually choose more accurate terminology, otherwise, a million of his/her neighbours on this island might take exception.
It's a bit like me spouting off about hating GAA fans, when I really only mean those from County ... (well, I'll let you fill in the missing word as you choose)
Are you having trouble understanding that?

[rosnarun]

yes you can be British and be from nothern ireland but what it makes you is either a traitor to Ireland or else Part of the invading english Take your pick