Shinty

[Banana Man]

thanks for that bottle thrower

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

I had a quick look for the team lineup that year and couldn't find it. I do recall it was the strongest ever team Ireland fielded for one of these games, and that as a contest it was a non-event.

I don't know if Scotland had the pick of their bunch on saturday, but given a team largely made up of division 2 and 3 players came within a point, its hard to imagine that Ireland's best team wouldn't hammer the Scots. But, as I said, perhaps they have a wealth of talent that didn't travel over.

What I found most boring about Shinty was the fact that there are only goals and no points. That makes it too like soccer in my book. Perhaps my opinion is too flavoured by a lifetime watching hurling where scoring is typically frequent. The skills of Shinty are beyond doubt - introduce points and then there would be a game worth getting excited about. In my humble opinion of course.

I remember the game, like I said they used the Aussie Rules scoring system and it ended up something daft like 57-32. In the 90's however there were a few years when the Irish fielded strong teams who lost to Scotland.

The Scottish team would have been fairly strong. Not the best 12 players perhaps but arguably the best 2 at the moment in Gary Innes and Ronald Ross and a good mix of Premier League and North Division 1 players. The comparison isn't ideal though given the huge difference in the number of players each sport is drawing from, there are probably roughly the same number of hurling clubs in Kilkenny as there are shinty clubs in Scotland. The strength in depth in hurling will be far greater than in shinty.

I'm not even totally convinced fielding the best Hurling 15 would make a massive of difference though as it's not hurling! They are still going to have the same issues with the Scots playing on the ground and being unable to lift the ball. The best hurling 15 would no doubt hammer the Irish team at hurling but I wouldn't say it was a given they would do significantly better in shinty-hurling. The year of the strange scoring system is the only year I recall in which either team won easily, the games have invariably been nip and tuck regardless of the relative strength of each time in shinty and hurling terms.

As for adding points to shinty it obviously wouldn't seem natural for anybody from a shinty background. I take your point ( ) about how hurling fans who are so used to lots of scores would be in favour but at the same time I know a few people over here who have said they couldn't get into hurling and football due to the frequency of the scores, that it devalued things a bit to have so many scores. I don't agree with that argument but it shows people tend to go with what they are used to. Also the Irish manager said after the game how easy it was for the Scots to drive a dead ball over the bar from distance, I don't think it would add much if players were always sticking it over the bar in shinty rather than concentrating on goals as has always been the case. Points in shinty just seems like a foreign concept. If you were at a good game of shinty I don't think you would be bored or would find the lack of points to be an issue. After all, why reward a player for missing the target?

[bottlethrower7]

As for adding points to shinty it obviously wouldn't seem natural for anybody from a shinty background. I take your point ( ) about how hurling fans who are so used to lots of scores would be in favour but at the same time I know a few people over here who have said they couldn't get into hurling and football due to the frequency of the scores, that it devalued things a bit to have so many scores. I don't agree with that argument but it shows people tend to go with what they are used to. Also the Irish manager said after the game how easy it was for the Scots to drive a dead ball over the bar from distance, I don't think it would add much if players were always sticking it over the bar in shinty rather than concentrating on goals as has always been the case. Points in shinty just seems like a foreign concept. If you were at a good game of shinty I don't think you would be bored or would find the lack of points to be an issue. After all, why reward a player for missing the target?

good points (no pun intended!), and well made. You're dead right of course, it does come down to what you're used to.

If the compromise tended one step further towards Shinty in the manner of scoring (ie: goals-only, no points), then I would see any Ireland team struggling. What was noticeable on saturday was Ireland's relative inability to create clear-cut goal-scoring chances. There were a couple of half-chances, sure, but did the keeper even have to make a save really? Contrast that to Dermody in the Ireland goals turning in a heroic performance.

[the colonel]

The Scotland squad was probably as good as it gets for the compromise rules game. I know one of the coaches quite well and he said they have picked the players best suited to the compromise game rather than their best shinty players. Alot of their players can't grasp the concept on the hurling style. They held trials over a couple of months so they were able to take a look at everyone.

I will fancy Ireland to win as they finished the game stronger and that experience for those who had never played the compromise before will benefit them hugely the next day

[Banana Man]

When's the 2nd test? Poorly marketed IMO

[bottlethrower7]

saturday week. I'm sure TG4 will cover it live.

thank god for tg4!

[the colonel]

Sat 13th Nov, Bught Park Inverness. 2pm throw in

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Was reading today about the stupid scoring system they are using over the two legs. Rather than going with an aggregate score the winners of each tie recieve 2 points with a further 1 point awarded for every 2 goals scored. So Scotland go into the 2nd leg leading 3-1. Who knows which f*cking idiot dreamed that up

[laoisgaa]

It's to make the second leg mean something. Had either team won by a big margin the last day, yesterday's game would have meant nothing

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

It's to make the second leg mean something. Had either team won by a big margin the last day, yesterday's game would have meant nothing

Perhaps but the games have pretty much always been very tight and there was no need to further complicate the scoring system by adding these daft rules. I didn't make it along to the game on Saturday but have heard from a number of people who did that there was a lot of confusion on the day as to who was ahead due to this system. The final score at the Bught was Scotland 3-7 Ireland 5-6. Over the two games that gave Ireland an aggregate win of 7-21 to 5-23. Or 5-4 under the system used this year

[Banana Man]

i swear to f**k lads i was reading the match report in the IN today and you would need a good 4 attempts to read the scoring system and aggregate setoff etc, does it really need to be that complicated to get it to mean something???

also was there not a swedish team involved in a shinty international as well a few years back, i would near swear on it, anyone remember that?

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Just to flag up to anybody who may be interested that the Camanachd Cup Final is this Saturday at 2.30 and will be on live on BBC 2 Scotland (which you can pick up through SKY). Should be quite a game between the oldest rivals in the sport, Kingussie and Newtonmore. Just 3 miles between the towns and they aren't too fond of each other. They haven't played in the final since 1997 and Newtonmore got the biggest hammering in the history of the final that year (12-1) so they will be very determined to get some revenge. They haven't won the cup since 1986 either which is a long time given they are the most succesful team overall in the history of shinty. Kingussie aren't the force they were but they have some good young players coming through and still do well in the big occasions. Rumoured also that Ronald Ross is to retire after this match so that will give Kingussie extra motivation to win the cup for him.

Edit - it was a great game!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b014tk1p/Shinty_Camanachd_Cup_2011_Newtonmore_v_Kingussie/

[LondonCamanachd]

Do any GAABoard posters know of a GAA-friendly pub in London that has TG4 and'll be showing the Shinty-Hurling international?

And does anybody else know whcih way round the legs are?  Some parts of the Camanchd Association's website show the home leg for Scotland on 22nd October, and the Croke Park leg on 29th, and other parts of the same website the other way round.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

The game in Ireland is in Athy on the 22nd with the return in Inverness on the 29th. I don't see the need for the two legs, it worked fine as a one off annual game. The shinty season has dragged on with the wet weather over the past few weeks putting some key games off and I know plenty of shinty folk are asking why are we devoting 2 weekends to this when the Premier League title and relegation is still to be decided. I would hope that this year they will just total up the aggregate score over the two games anyway rather than the mad system they dreamed up last year .

Scotland squad;

John Barr (Glenurquhart)
Kevin Bartlett (Caberfeidh)
Daniel Cameron (Oban Camanachd)
Norman Campbell (Newtonmore)
Andrew Corrigan (Glenurquhart)
Gary Innes (Fort William)
Donald Irvine (Kyles Athletic)
Grant Irvine (Kyles Athletic)
John MacDonald (Fort William)
Neil MacDonald (Lochaber)
Roddy MacDonald (Kyles Athletic)
Stuart MacKintosh (Glenurquhart)
Robbie MacLeod (Kyles Athletic)
Niall MacPhee (Fort William)
Finlay MacRae (Kinlochshiel)
Keith MacRae (Kinlochshiel)
Shaun Nicolson (Lochaber)
John Stewart (Kilmallie)
Gavin Stobbart (Oban Camanachd)

[the colonel]

Gary Innes and Ronald Ross big losses for the Scotland team