The Old Derry / Londonderry name problem

[Main Street]

Looks like kids are still being (indirectly) indoctrinated to hate catholics.

[nifan]

Yes, unfortunately some are.

[Maguire01]

New twist in Maiden City name change row

By Lisa Smyth
Thursday, 24 September 2009
The Equality Commission has recommended that Derry City Council halt plans to change the name of the Maiden City from Londonderry to Derry.

The long running debate over the name of the city took another twist yesterday when the Equality Commission published the findings of its report into an equality impact assessment on the proposals carried out by Derry City Council.

The Equality Commission said it recognises that the argument over the name is "deeply resonant of the history of Northern Ireland and touches on some of the fundamental issues of being associated with one of Northern Ireland's two main traditions".

The organisation has said it believes there are a wider range of options open to the city council in terms of the way in which it would take its decision than those which were formally addressed within the equality impact assessment.

The report said: "There is further confusion added by the fact that the council's stated objectives and the aims of the policy are different in a significant way. Even within the policy aims there is a real conflict to the extent that it is virtually impossible to reconcile the differences between them.

"The stated objectives of the council, which appear to be the yardstick against which the council measures any approach to its proposal, pose an even more fundamental problem as they make no provision for taking into account the views of those who are not part of the majority."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/new-twist-in-maiden-city-name-change-row-14506143.html

Interesting to read the full document too - it's not too long:
http://www.equalityni.org/archive/ECNI%20DDC%20EQIA.pdf

Makes interesting references to other cities where names are disputed. And the idea of alternatives like having 2 official names (i.e. Derry and Londonderry) - because at the end of the day, people are going to call it whatever they want.
Other references were made to LondonDerry (i.e. capital D), although I think that's a bit pointless.
Mention also of DoireLondonDerry, although that's a bit of a mouthful and it would be hard to see anyone using that one.

Having read the report though, it makes you question whether the name should be changed, even if Ireland is united. Should we simply brush away massive parts of our country's history to try and erase the bad bits?
I'll always call it Derry, others will always call it Londonderry, but if Derry was officially recognised along with Londonderry (i.e. the 2 name option), that's probably a reasonable enough outcome.

[armaghniac]

Given the earlier point about London being named after the Celtic god Lugh could you call it Doire na Lu or something like that.

Having dual names is well and good, but maps, roadsigns etc should reflect the preference of the majority in the city.

[Maguire01]

Having dual names is well and good, but maps, roadsigns etc should reflect the preference of the majority in the city.

Surely they could reflect both? In the Republic, road signs manage to include both Irish and English versions of placenames.

[Roger]

Having dual names is well and good, but maps, roadsigns etc should reflect the preference of the majority in the city.

It's not about majorities anymore.  Nationalists have been succesful in ensuring that 

[Ulster Exile]

I had a mate went to bus station many years ago and asked for a ticet to Derry. The man in the booth asked, "is that Edenderry, Ballinderry or......' and my friend said..."london-derry." brilliantly set up...     

I don't get it.

[armaghniac]

It's not about majorities anymore.  Nationalists have been succesful in ensuring that 

The principle of the GFA is that the status of NI is determined by the majority living there, not by people living in Ireland generally.
The status of Derry should be decided by the majority living there, not by people living in Antrim.

[Aerlik]

"The stated objectives of the council, which appear to be the yardstick against which the council measures any approach to its proposal, pose an even more fundamental problem as they make no provision for taking into account the views of those who are not part of the majority."

1917 all over again.  Here we go...those not part of the majority get to veto the wishes of the majority.

It is also time that the majority be recognised in the removal of the St.Patrick/Fitzgerald saltire from the British flag, and the national symbol of the country is pinned somewhat ingloriously to the British coat of arms; that too should be changed.

[Roger]

It's not about majorities anymore.  Nationalists have been succesful in ensuring that 

The principle of the GFA is that the status of NI is determined by the majority living there, not by people living in Ireland generally.

I don't argue with the logic or merits of that.

The status of Derry should be decided by the majority living there, not by people living in Antrim.

Nationalists have championed the 'Equality Agenda' which means Equality Impact of changes of policy need to be assessed in order to safeguard sectarian policies. An adversely effected minority means that the majority don't get what they want in such circumstances and this is the case with the sectarian motivated proposed change to Londonderry's name. 

[Main Street]

Rather, the problem is with the perception of sectarian motivation.

[Maguire01]

Rather, the problem is with the perception of sectarian motivation.

But honestly, what is the motivation, if not sectarian? It's all about identity surely - how can that not be sectarian? I'm not saying that such a motivation is necessarily a bad thing. I can fully understand why many people - especially those who live there - want the name changed, but let's call a spade a spade.

[Olaf]

Rather, the problem is with the perception of sectarian motivation.

How can it not be?

[Olaf]

“The stated objectives of the council, which appear to be the yardstick against which the council measures any approach to its proposal, pose an even more fundamental problem as they make no provision for taking into account the views of those who are not part of the majority.”

It is also time that the majority be recognised in the removal of the St.Patrick/Fitzgerald saltire from the British flag, 

Does that logic then extend to removing the orange bit from the tri-colour  ? Whilst, as far as I am aware there are about 1 million Irish men and women on this island who identify with  and feel represented  by the St Patrick Saltire on the Union flag,  I think that you would be hard pushed to find one orangeman and/or Protestant on this island who would identify with  or feels represented by the orange/gold bit on the tri-colour.

[Donagh]

But honestly, what is the motivation, if not sectarian? It's all about identity surely - how can that not be sectarian? I'm not saying that such a motivation is necessarily a bad thing. I can fully understand why many people - especially those who live there - want the name changed, but let's call a spade a spade.

Are you equating the Irish identify of northern nationalists with their religion? How very unionist of you.