The Old Derry / Londonderry name problem

[Donagh]

Good spot Maiden!

[deiseach]

Would people on here feel the need to 'correct' someone who casually referred to Londonderry?

[Rois]

Ok - I'll go with that.

I remember my dad telling me that thing about County Derry never actually existing - since he was an Irish history teacher (in Strabane) and is the current chair of the Federation for Ulster Local Studies, I never doubted him!  I will revert back tonight over a glass of wine (interesting discussions in our house).

[Farrandeelin]

Well yes I would. And anyway, Derry only has 2 sylablles!

[deiseach]

Well yes I would. And anyway, Derry only has 2 sylablles!

I gave up correcting people when I was living in England. They never meant anything political by it and the energy used in explaining the history wasn't worth it

[nifan]

Interestingingly enough (I think), I was looking through the 1911 census and there was no mention of Londonderry on it and this is people filling in there own forms in predominantly protestestant areas of Derry.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Church_Walls/

If you click on the census forms for any of the names (I just chose a street at random) they all put county as Derry.  It seems to be a more modern thing that it has started to be refereed to as Londonderry by some people.

Interesting indeed - and I note some forefathers of mine would be included ont eh list of referring to it as derry.

However the use of derry is often seen as "shorthand" for many, while seeing the "correct" name as Londonderry.

[nifan]

Rois, think the county name changed from coleraine to londonderry at the same time as they changed the name of the city from derry to londonderry

[johnneycool]

Would people on here feel the need to 'correct' someone who casually referred to Londonderry?

I'd work with a good few people from the Coleraine area and I wouldn't 'correct' them if they talked about Londonderry and none of them seem to bother when I use the term Derry.

No need to go seeking trouble, it'll find you soon enough.

[Rois]

Rois, think the city name changed from coleraine to londonderry at the same time as they changed the name of the city from derry to londonderry

eh?  I was talking about County Derry.  Are you confused or is it me?

[nifan]

me! meant COUNTY coleraine became county Londonderry at the same time as the city changed name. I think you are correct that it never officially went through county derry.

[ziggysego]

Name should be changed. Chav City.

[lynchbhoy]

never heard the county coleraine thing before, but would have said that most counties took their names from main town in that county.
That this practice seemed to be starting from what people were writing in that 1911 census would back up that this was already in progress when the renaming to insert london prefix occurred.

so its either county Derry or county Colmcille , with a new runner county coleraine for future use!

anyway its no problem, it will be county Derry in the not too distant future, as thats what the majority of natives say.
County colmcille has a nice ring to it though !

[nifan]

LB - im surprised youve never heard of it, it has been mentioned on this board several times.


From
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/plantation/companies/londoncompanies_full.rtf

"Terrified that the City of London would dig in its heels and somehow refuse to proceed, the Government agreed to demands, and a new County was created specially for the City to colonise: that County was called the County of Londonderry, and included the old County of Coleraine to which bits of Counties Antrim, Donegal, and Tyrone were joined.  It should be noted that at no time, before or since, was there ever an Irish county called 'Derry', and it is historical nonsense to refer to 'County Derry'.  The Diocese was always 'Derry', however, but the new, planned, walled city erected by the City of London was re-named 'Londonderry'."

[Roger]

LB - im surprised youve never heard of it, it has been mentioned on this board several times.

He doesn't listen if something doesn't suit his blinkered view.  The fall back position is that "our day is coming and we're going to do what we want".   

[lynchbhoy]

LB - im surprised youve never heard of it, it has been mentioned on this board several times.


From
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/plantation/companies/londoncompanies_full.rtf

"Terrified that the City of London would dig in its heels and somehow refuse to proceed, the Government agreed to demands, and a new County was created specially for the City to colonise: that County was called the County of Londonderry, and included the old County of Coleraine to which bits of Counties Antrim, Donegal, and Tyrone were joined.  It should be noted that at no time, before or since, was there ever an Irish county called 'Derry', and it is historical nonsense to refer to 'County Derry'.  The Diocese was always 'Derry', however, but the new, planned, walled city erected by the City of London was re-named 'Londonderry'."

honestly didnt , but have now
think colmcille precedes that though !
Dont know how I never heard of the county coleraine thing!

thanks