Derry v Dublin All Ireland Quarter Final

[Croí na hÉireann]

Barry Cahill has been one of the best half backs this year, Paul Casey one of the worst, r u trying to confuse Pillar or something???

[his holiness nb]

Brennan plays for Vincents, played most of the league, did well.

[tbrick18]

Not sure bout Paul Murphy's injury Bogball, heard a couple of different reports, one that he had a dead leg, the other it was his knee and he is due to go for a scan. The knee may be more accurate as he had it wrapped up with ice at the end of the game and didnt do the warm-down obviously. Would be a huge loss. Took the goal really well and caused Joe Higgins endless problems.

So has everyone got their tickets sorted yet? 

Maybe going against the grain here, but some of that crap bout the Dub's behaviour on the hill and the snow epidemic is very stereotypical. We are here to talk abut the game!

Murphy's injury was definately the knee, and I know they were really worried about it and were sending him for a scan, but I havent heard anything since that.
I ddint know McCloy was injured....whats wrong with him? We would struggle to cope without him....who would we put in? What about Patsy? Worked for the Tyronnies throwin in the late cormac mcanallen from midfield...

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy
It's unusual not to have you in the Dub's camp in the build-up to a big game – but I suppose in the circumstances of this game, you're forgiven. 
I'd be interested in hearing what your views would be on the best Dublin starting line-up (what starting 15 would you most fear – from a Derry perspective). I suppose Declan Lally would be in there.   

I actually dont want to comment too much on this game. On the Lally front, he has been superb for naomh brid this year, and right now if running the show from CHF. The lad is slowly getting his confidence back. I talk to him on occasion and I know caffrey doesnt rate him at all. Then again I dont rate caffrey - and have said so as soon as he was appointed. I would not see much diff between Paddy c and Paul c.Diff is that Caffrey has a more knowledgeable team around him whom he relies on more heavly for advice. I cant say for def, but I think Paddy c makes and takes more of the decisions himself. I spotted Brian talty in the same car park as me on saturday leaving the Derry v Laois game in cavan- he is a smarter more astute man.
Dubs defence is quite good as is Derry's. I see both sides restricting the opposing set of forwards to few scores (after predicting that it will now prob be a high scoring shootout!). Frees will be crucial.Long range point scoring will also be. Dublins advantageof physicality will not matter to Derry who always cope well with physical teams. Its when this is used in conjunction with cuteness (like tyrone and this year monaghan) derry see red and lose the rag and end up fighting instead of playing football - therefore losing.

I dont like the Dublin forwards at all. Alan Brogan has not had a good season so far (by his standards - and seems to be trying to force things now). Derry have hit form and stumbled upon a gameplan that optimises them. It is still far from perfect but Laois tried to deploy a man in front of the 2 man FF line (as was heavily reccommended on here last season as being the way to easily beat the Derry FF lines effectiveness -) but the method as then suggested to beat this defensive tactic was to use the extra man and also to hit more accurate cross field passes into the two man line. these worked. Under presssure from better defenders than Laois had - will Derry find the composure to unlock the dubs defence?
Certainly not as much. Will see how effective each set of forwards are.
Derry have their best sextet on the field (barring inj).
Dublin I believe do not. Adding Vaughan is a key factor. I would pick
Whelan Magee
Keaney Lally B Brogan
A Brogan Vaughan Ryan (3rd mf)
with Sherlock being the man to replace either Keaney or Lally. Defense much the same - if a better replacement for casey is found then ok, but he is not that bad.
Short kick outs trouble Derry who lack concentration up front for kick outs.
Dublin do not posess fast attacking half backs that Laois had who gave problems all day long for derry.
Brian cullen going forward will possibly be counter productive if someone is not deployed further out the field by Dublin, and by cullen moving up - the space afforded to Laois if given to Derry could cripple Dublin's otherwise tight defense and physicality will not stop the larger derry forwards.
I see this at best being a close game with either side capable of winning it.
Derry's pros - on form, stingy def, good match up with Dublins key areas, more than one man scoring with a few having ability to hit long range points, match fit having played a few games recently.
Dublins pros- huge adv of being used to Croke park, Experienced forwards good at drawing fouls and winning frees, prob better long range free scoring potential now with Vaughan , Derry have poor keeper and Dublin are on form for goal scoring, drilled to move the ball quickly and good at winning breaking ball. Better tactical sideline.

[The Hill is Blue]

Who is this Brennan fella ye are lookin in WHB? As much as I don't like Casey and think he's a tr**p he's game to fire his head anywhere and he brings a bit of steel and aggression to the Dubs defence so I don't think he should be dropped.

What's the craic with Moran playing WHF? He's a defender through and through and I thought that with Goggins finally getting ousted from that LHB slot Moran would have been staraight in there. God knows he'd be better than Cahill in that position (Don't really see what Cahill brings to the team at LHB, or at all really) Are the Dubs freally struggling that badly for natural WHF's.

My own view on the match is that Derry have a much more well rounded team than Dublin. McConnell, Henry, B. Brogan, Vaughan and Bonner haven't really proven themselves at this level whilst the jury is still out as to whether Cahill, Ryan and Moran are playing their natural positions and are effective in these positions for Dublin to push on enough to win that AI that escapes them.

I think Dublin's system and the fact that they have 15 supremely fit lads bursting their hole's for the cause has kind of masked the fact that this Dublin team does not really have the talent or skill level required to win an All Ireland - something we have witnessed with Mayo and a reason why I think the Dubs will keep coming close but ultimately come up short come September...

As for next Saturday's game Dublin are well capable of beating Derry but as Paddy Crozier himself has said... at our best Derry will beat any team in the country whilst at our worst we can get beaten by any team in the country... I'm going for a 4 point win for the Leafers though!

Brennan is an aggressive defender with an eye for the posts (he scored a point against Laois just after coming on for Casey). He's a tighter marker than Casey.

Regarding Collie Moran in the half-forwards – his role is to scrap for ball in the middle third of the field and he's been pretty successful at that, and his overall contribution has been positive. His big weakness has been his shooting, and if he could get that right his contribution would be immense.

I have to disagree with you on Cahill and Ryan who were both contenders for man-of-the match against Laois.

[The Hill is Blue]

Lynchboy
It's unusual not to have you in the Dub's camp in the build-up to a big game – but I suppose in the circumstances of this game, you're forgiven. 
I'd be interested in hearing what your views would be on the best Dublin starting line-up (what starting 15 would you most fear – from a Derry perspective). I suppose Declan Lally would be in there.   

I actually dont want to comment too much on this game. On the Lally front, he has been superb for naomh brid this year, and right now if running the show from CHF. The lad is slowly getting his confidence back. I talk to him on occasion and I know caffrey doesnt rate him at all. Then again I dont rate caffrey - and have said so as soon as he was appointed. I would not see much diff between Paddy c and Paul c.Diff is that Caffrey has a more knowledgeable team around him whom he relies on more heavly for advice. I cant say for def, but I think Paddy c makes and takes more of the decisions himself. I spotted Brian talty in the same car park as me on saturday leaving the Derry v Laois game in cavan- he is a smarter more astute man.
Dubs defence is quite good as is Derry's. I see both sides restricting the opposing set of forwards to few scores (after predicting that it will now prob be a high scoring shootout!). Frees will be crucial.Long range point scoring will also be. Dublins advantageof physicality will not matter to Derry who always cope well with physical teams. Its when this is used in conjunction with cuteness (like tyrone and this year monaghan) derry see red and lose the rag and end up fighting instead of playing football - therefore losing.

I dont like the Dublin forwards at all. Alan Brogan has not had a good season so far (by his standards - and seems to be trying to force things now). Derry have hit form and stumbled upon a gameplan that optimises them. It is still far from perfect but Laois tried to deploy a man in front of the 2 man FF line (as was heavily reccommended on here last season as being the way to easily beat the Derry FF lines effectiveness -) but the method as then suggested to beat this defensive tactic was to use the extra man and also to hit more accurate cross field passes into the two man line. these worked. Under presssure from better defenders than Laois had - will Derry find the composure to unlock the dubs defence?
Certainly not as much. Will see how effective each set of forwards are.
Derry have their best sextet on the field (barring inj).
Dublin I believe do not. Adding Vaughan is a key factor. I would pick
Whelan Magee
Keaney Lally B Brogan
A Brogan Vaughan Ryan (3rd mf)
with Sherlock being the man to replace either Keaney or Lally. Defense much the same - if a better replacement for casey is found then ok, but he is not that bad.
Short kick outs trouble Derry who lack concentration up front for kick outs.
Dublin do not posess fast attacking half backs that Laois had who gave problems all day long for derry.
Brian cullen going forward will possibly be counter productive if someone is not deployed further out the field by Dublin, and by cullen moving up - the space afforded to Laois if given to Derry could cripple Dublin's otherwise tight defense and physicality will not stop the larger derry forwards.
I see this at best being a close game with either side capable of winning it.
Derry's pros - on form, stingy def, good match up with Dublins key areas, more than one man scoring with a few having ability to hit long range points, match fit having played a few games recently.
Dublins pros- huge adv of being used to Croke park, Experienced forwards good at drawing fouls and winning frees, prob better long range free scoring potential now with Vaughan , Derry have poor keeper and Dublin are on form for goal scoring, drilled to move the ball quickly and good at winning breaking ball. Better tactical sideline.

While I'd disagree with you on some matters of detail, overall it's a great summary and very thought provoking.

Maith an fear 

[INDIANA]

very good post lynchboy but i haven't seen anything from lally to suggest he merits inclusion- he had a number of chances previously and didn't take any of them- he played well in the recent SFC against an average outfit but this is another level all together.

[lynchbhoy]

very good post lynchboy but i haven't seen anything from lally to suggest he merits inclusion- he had a number of chances previously and didn't take any of them- he played well in the recent SFC against an average outfit but this is another level all together.

I can understand why people say that about lally. I am always on about him as I believe he IS that good.
How could anyone think he was good outside of his club, no one gets to see it.
I will say is I am delighted that he wont be selected against Derry. I'll be telling him that too.

[DUBSFORSAM1]

On the basis of previous games I would think the likely teams will be

Cluxton                 McGillis
Henry                   McGoldrick
McConnell              McCloy
Griffen                  SML
Casey                   Hinphey
Cullen                   O'Kane
Cahil                     McEldowney
Ryan                     Docherty
Whelan                 Conway
Moran                   Lynch
Sherlock                Murphy
Brogan                  Muldoon               
Brogan                  Devlin
Keaney                  Bradley
Vaughan               Gilligan

Derry are likely to pull Gilligan back to the half forward line and have Lynch roam back to the half back line....On that basis should Dublin:
1 - Put McConnell on Muldoon out around the middle...
2 - Griffen on Bradley, Henry on Devlin
3 - Cahill Murphy, Casey on Gilligan and Cullen sweeping in front of the full back line and covering Lynch coming forward???

[Tankie]

very good post lynchboy but i haven't seen anything from lally to suggest he merits inclusion- he had a number of chances previously and didn't take any of them- he played well in the recent SFC against an average outfit but this is another level all together.

Pillar is still pissed with him from what i heard!

[lynchbhoy]

caffrey is a thick hoor and wont change his mind

[Hound]

I honestly don't think Lally could complain about getting a lack of chances from Pillar in previous years. He had chances, and didnt take them. Not the first talented footballer to do exactly that.

This year he's been given little or no chance. Whether he deserved another chance I dont know, but apparently he was blacklisted for going on to Dubai with the All Stars. *Apparently (pub rumour mill which if often unreliable!!)* Lally called Pillar when he got the call-up and the conversation went something like this:

Lally: Pillar, I've been called up for the All Star trip, but I have to give an answer straight away, as the plane leaves tonight. Is there any problem with me going?
Caffrey: If you want to go, you can go.
Lally: Grand job, see you in a week or so.

Lally came back and found himself blacklisted. His mistake was that he shouldnt have wanted to go!

Probably rubbish, but its a good story   

Similar "story" with Shocko. Went to Oz or NZ at the beginning of the year, missed the first NFL game. Got permission from Caffrey to go but was blacklisted on his return as a committed player wouldnt have wanted to go!

[Loup Bandit]

Hound, are you referring to O'Shaughnessy the corner back?
Was wondering where he was, rated him very highly a couple of seasons ago when he done the shoulder in, wasn't that right?

On Declan Lally, i seen him in the sigerson final in 2006 and he was first class. Seen him as a better wing back than a forward.

[lynchbhoy]

thats a true story about lally
but I am somewhat amused to find how people think he has got a good enough run to prove himself.
IMO he most def has not.
Loup - if you had seen him play from minor onwards youd realise his superb scoreing, balli winning and passing talent.
He's far too good in the forwards to be used as a mere wing back - though his conf has been so badly affected that he now believes he is indeed a wing half back.
(I had a 'debate' with him about this a few months back)

anyhow just glad that he is not playing against Derry as he would surprise a lot of folk (Derry , dublin and more ) at what he can do if he was on form got the ball

Caffrey picks who he thinks is his bst XV. Lally doesnt make it - not does he seem to make the next 5 - 10 places.

Caffrey is a nice man, but a thick hoor (pot , kettle....) - I have witnessed caffrey get thick and verbal fight with a few 13 years olds who said something he didnt like about na fianna (as in 'na fianna are shite')

[Romeo]

Lynchboy
It's unusual not to have you in the Dub's camp in the build-up to a big game – but I suppose in the circumstances of this game, you're forgiven. 
I'd be interested in hearing what your views would be on the best Dublin starting line-up (what starting 15 would you most fear – from a Derry perspective). I suppose Declan Lally would be in there.   

I actually dont want to comment too much on this game. On the Lally front, he has been superb for naomh brid this year, and right now if running the show from CHF. The lad is slowly getting his confidence back. I talk to him on occasion and I know caffrey doesnt rate him at all. Then again I dont rate caffrey - and have said so as soon as he was appointed. I would not see much diff between Paddy c and Paul c.Diff is that Caffrey has a more knowledgeable team around him whom he relies on more heavly for advice. I cant say for def, but I think Paddy c makes and takes more of the decisions himself. I spotted Brian talty in the same car park as me on saturday leaving the Derry v Laois game in cavan- he is a smarter more astute man.
Dubs defence is quite good as is Derry's. I see both sides restricting the opposing set of forwards to few scores (after predicting that it will now prob be a high scoring shootout!). Frees will be crucial.Long range point scoring will also be. Dublins advantageof physicality will not matter to Derry who always cope well with physical teams. Its when this is used in conjunction with cuteness (like tyrone and this year monaghan) derry see red and lose the rag and end up fighting instead of playing football - therefore losing.

I dont like the Dublin forwards at all. Alan Brogan has not had a good season so far (by his standards - and seems to be trying to force things now). Derry have hit form and stumbled upon a gameplan that optimises them. It is still far from perfect but Laois tried to deploy a man in front of the 2 man FF line (as was heavily reccommended on here last season as being the way to easily beat the Derry FF lines effectiveness -) but the method as then suggested to beat this defensive tactic was to use the extra man and also to hit more accurate cross field passes into the two man line. these worked. Under presssure from better defenders than Laois had - will Derry find the composure to unlock the dubs defence?
Certainly not as much. Will see how effective each set of forwards are.
Derry have their best sextet on the field (barring inj).
Dublin I believe do not. Adding Vaughan is a key factor. I would pick
Whelan Magee
Keaney Lally B Brogan
A Brogan Vaughan Ryan (3rd mf)
with Sherlock being the man to replace either Keaney or Lally. Defense much the same - if a better replacement for casey is found then ok, but he is not that bad.
Short kick outs trouble Derry who lack concentration up front for kick outs.
Dublin do not posess fast attacking half backs that Laois had who gave problems all day long for derry.
Brian cullen going forward will possibly be counter productive if someone is not deployed further out the field by Dublin, and by cullen moving up - the space afforded to Laois if given to Derry could cripple Dublin's otherwise tight defense and physicality will not stop the larger derry forwards.
I see this at best being a close game with either side capable of winning it.
Derry's pros - on form, stingy def, good match up with Dublins key areas, more than one man scoring with a few having ability to hit long range points, match fit having played a few games recently.
Dublins pros- huge adv of being used to Croke park, Experienced forwards good at drawing fouls and winning frees, prob better long range free scoring potential now with Vaughan , Derry have poor keeper and Dublin are on form for goal scoring, drilled to move the ball quickly and good at winning breaking ball. Better tactical sideline.

So that's you NOT commenting much on the game is it???