The OWC mask slips - read and feel the hatred

Yer Ma · July 25, 2007, 03:17:23 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:05:15 PM
nifan< for your info Sinn Fein has no influence on GAA affairs< unlike Unionist Party members and unionist Paramilitary members who are on the Boards of various Irish League clubs

Also what do you make of the shrine to UVF terrorism to be preserved at the Maze and why does this not attract any ire on the OWC website?

I think the guys on OWC are against any shrine to terrorism to be fair, and personally I don't think that at a sports stadium there should be anything to do with the 'Troubles'. If there needs to any museums showcasing the pretty depressing past of Northern Ireland, have them somewhere else.

nifan · July 25, 2007, 03:24:23 PM

Tony, Ive no idea about loyalist paramilitaries on Irish League boards. You obviously do. can you assure me that no SF emmber or republican paramilitary has any position within the GAA.

SF obviously have influence within sporting groups and have brought this to bear before (I didnt specify the GAA for this - remember donegal celtic being due to play the RUC team a few years ago? or the hunger strike rally at casement)

T Fearon · July 25, 2007, 03:29:08 PM

Donegal Celtic were intimidated and the Casement Park rally proceeded against the express instructions of the GAA Headquarters. It is laughable to suggest that Sinn Fein or any political party influences official GAA policy in any way, shape, or form.

The stadium is only one part of an entire complex mooted for the MAZE, which as I understand also includes bars,restaurants,hotels etc. As I've said before the H Block museum contains both republican and loyalist wings and is to be sited no where near the actual stadium itself.

Jim_Murphy_74 · July 25, 2007, 03:36:17 PM

Quote from: GweylTah on July 25, 2007, 03:02:04 PM
I know that gaelic games need bigger pitches, but a bigger stadium? How many stadia does the GAA need? Has the GAA actually promised to play any big games at any Maze stadium, in fact, ANY new stadium?

The only use any new stadium would be to the GAA is if it is big enough to hold a large Ulster final crowd that wouldn't fit Clones. This is not an everyday occasion but it has happened in the recent past.

I don't think the GAA participation is driven by a huge immediate need, it is more a case of not looking a gift horse in the mouth. If they get a stadium on the cheap, they won't feel too bad about under utilisation. It's a fair position to take in the current negotiations.

Also if the GAA did take the money for development of their own and then used to develop Clones (the traditional home of Ulster football finals) they would be outcry about money going to a foreign (sic) country.

/Jim.

Yer Ma · July 25, 2007, 03:44:18 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:29:08 PM
Donegal Celtic were intimidated and the Casement Park rally proceeded against the express instructions of the GAA Headquarters. It is laughable to suggest that Sinn Fein or any political party influences official GAA policy in any way, shape, or form.

The stadium is only one part of an entire complex mooted for the MAZE, which as I understand also includes bars,restaurants,hotels etc. As I've said before the H Block museum contains both republican and loyalist wings and is to be sited no where near the actual stadium itself.

I think the conflict centre and the stadium are about half a mile apart, which means they aren't beside each other, but not exactly far away either. My personal preference is just that the place should be flattened and something not politics related should be put in its place.

On a side note, if the GAA HQ issues instructions for a rally at a ground not to go ahead, why did it go ahead? Who forced it through, and was it legal to do this?

An Fear Rua · July 25, 2007, 03:53:23 PM

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on July 25, 2007, 03:36:17 PM

Also if the GAA did take the money for development of their own and then used to develop Clones (the traditional home of Ulster football finals) they would be outcry about money going to a foreign (sic) country.

/Jim.

Interesting thought Jim, it would on one hand be quite funny to listen to the outcry, but on the other hand quite a useful payoff for providing a rugger/sawkar stadium in Belfast...

T Fearon · July 25, 2007, 03:53:48 PM

The Antrim Board ostensibly ignored GAA instructions, but I am sure you can imagine the enormous pressure they were under from the local community. Would there have been a Casement Park left standing if they had obeyed instructions? Liam Mulvihill, last Sunday night on RTE, reflecting on his time in office, cited the Hunger Strike period as his most challenging time due to the pressure he came under.

In any event rival unionist paramilitaries have shoot outs and punch ups in various Irish league social clubs and even during the course of team's celebrating Irish Cup Final wins, without sanction from the IFA, so please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this

nifan · July 25, 2007, 04:07:41 PM

Quoteso please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this

Tony, you have often used the term removing the mote from ones eye, and i guess your attitude could sum that up, since you feel the need to ponticate at every real and imaginary problem with others,

However you seem to be missing my point, which was that although SF does use its influence ion sporting organisations, which you have as good as admitted (the antrim board for example seemed influenced in your statement) I dont feel it is correct to say they are necessarily in cahoots. I do feel that SF have put pressure on by wedding the whole thing to the conflict centre - they said there would be no stadium withought it.

Yer Ma · July 25, 2007, 04:13:28 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 03:53:48 PM
The Antrim Board ostensibly ignored GAA instructions, but I am sure you can imagine the enormous pressure they were under from the local community. Would there have been a Casement Park left standing if they had obeyed instructions? Liam Mulvihill, last Sunday night on RTE, reflecting on his time in office, cited the Hunger Strike period as his most challenging time due to the pressure he came under.

In any event rival unionist paramilitaries have shoot outs and punch ups in various Irish league social clubs and even during the course of team's celebrating Irish Cup Final wins, without sanction from the IFA, so please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this

I'm not sure about the comparison between a rally at a GAA ground and supposed shoot outs and punch ups in social clubs. There was obviously a lot of pressure but to do nothing then undermines whatever power they do hold. However, that's getting away from the thread in general. I think the gist is that no 'side' is whiter than white.

T Fearon · July 25, 2007, 04:14:47 PM

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this debate but am confident that the GAA at the highest level takes no cognisance of what Sinn Fein or any other political party wants.

If OWC and unionists are so intractably opposed to the so called terrorist shrine then why

1.Do they take part in Orange parades behind banners glorifying terrorism?

2. Allow members of terrorist organisations to head up the Shankhill NISC (has thsi club been ejected from the amalgamation for this? No I didn't think so)

3.Have one minute's silence at the Oval when paramilitarists die?

Rossfan · July 25, 2007, 04:34:00 PM

Quote from: nifan on July 25, 2007, 04:07:41 PM
Quoteso please,spare me the hypocricy of OWCers complaining about issues like this
Tony, you have often used the term removing the mote from ones eye, and i guess your attitude could . I do feel that SF have put pressure on by wedding the whole thing to the conflict centre - they said there would be no stadium withought it.

Sinn Féin are a major part of Government in the 6 north Eastern Counties so I presume they can influence an awful lot of things these days

Yer Ma · July 25, 2007, 04:44:49 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on July 25, 2007, 04:14:47 PM
I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of this debate but am confident that the GAA at the highest level takes no cognisance of what Sinn Fein or any other political party wants.

If OWC and unionists are so intractably opposed to the so called terrorist shrine then why

1.Do they take part in Orange parades behind banners glorifying terrorism?

2. Allow members of terrorist organisations to head up the Shankhill NISC (has thsi club been ejected from the amalgamation for this? No I didn't think so)

3.Have one minute's silence at the Oval when paramilitarists die?

It's not a tit for tat scenario. I remember there were a lot of raised eyebrows at that minute's silence at the Oval on both sides, don't think it met with approval in many places. I don't think all 'OWC and Unionists' take part in Orange parades glorifying terrorism either. It's entirely possible that a great section of this community don't like sectarianism of any kind but do not like the idea of a conflict centre beside the new sports stadium, and they are not being hypocritical. I'm not sure all nationalists necessarily believe that the conflict centre is a corking idea either.

nifan · July 25, 2007, 04:47:22 PM

Tony, your post talks about "OWC and unionists".
I am unsure of exactly who you are talking about??

Jim_Murphy_74 · July 25, 2007, 04:57:02 PM

Quote from: Yer Ma on July 25, 2007, 03:44:18 PM
On a side note, if the GAA HQ issues instructions for a rally at a ground not to go ahead, why did it go ahead? Who forced it through, and was it legal to do this?

Yer Ma,

The Central Council indicated that it was in contravention of the rules. At the time there was allegations (denied all round) of intimidation and all kinds of shenanigans.

The punishment would be to ban the whole Antrim County Board (and all it's clubs to all levels) for 48months for violating Rule 42. There is no way anyone would countenance doing that. To be honest if the GAA should reduce the penalty to something more practical and enforceable if they want to make the punishment stick.

/Jim.