Standard of Refs

[yellowcard]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall. 

The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.

[guevara]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall. 

The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.

I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.

There is nothing unusual about it!  The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.

You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.

As I said, watch it back and come back to me.

[Milltown Row2]

Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..

I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft

[guevara]

Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..

I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft

Nothing soft about us MR2. Just prefer the rules to be applied fairly & consistently. But go ahead, see how you get on trying to justify him getting things blatantly wrong. If you think Im the only one maybe see what Enda McGinley had to say on it. He must be soft too!

[Milltown Row2]

Tell ya what, I'll watch it back when I get a chance, maybe tonight when she's off with the daughter to watch Barbie ffs! I'll tally the frees/advantages he gave, I'll note ones I'd give that he didn't and see where that takes us..

I'd be a physical enough type ref, so I tend to let things go a bit, didn't realise the Down ones were a bit soft

Nothing soft about us MR2. Just prefer the rules to be applied fairly & consistently. But go ahead, see how you get on trying to justify him getting things blatantly wrong. If you think Im the only one maybe see what Enda McGinley had to say on it. He must be soft too!

All about perceptions and opinions and agendas ... Never have a winning teams come over after a game and complain, plenty of losing teams do though, which I find strange 

[whitey]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall. 

The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.

I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.

There is nothing unusual about it!  The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.

You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.

As I said, watch it back and come back to me.

Well it's not like he got ONE decision wrong as it pertained to McCarthy

He got THREE decisions wrong

[Milltown Row2]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

For a so called neutral it's unusual that you called out all of the decisions that went against Kerry. The reversal of the free kick on Clifford was ultimately the correct decision, Gough himself originally gave him a free kick incorrectly. You claim that it was a cop out yet the cop out would have been if he had stuck with his original decision. As for the incidents involving McCarthy and Costello I'd have to watch them again but there was a level of physicality that Gough allowed in the game from the first whistle which helped the game to flow. Refereeing is not an exact science, the best you can hope for is that he gets most of the decisions correct and that no side is favoured over the other. On that basis I think he had a very good game overall. 

The beaten side always have to soul search somewhere for blame but Gough was far from the main reason why they didn't win the match.

I am Down Man who had no horse in the race. Like others I tuned in to see a good competitive final between the two best teams in the country.

There is nothing unusual about it!  The major decisions in the game all went Dublin's way. If you disagree go and watch the game back and come back to me. And when you do if you still think in a two point game they didn't have an impact on the outcome of the game then you are deluded.

You are correct Refereeing is not an exact science. But this is The All-Ireland Final so forgive me if I disagree and say that you are wrong. David Gough should get the big decisions right, not hope to. On Sunday past he didn't.

As I said, watch it back and come back to me.

Well it's not like he got ONE decision wrong as it pertained to McCarthy

He got THREE decisions wrong

He's not perfect as is Clifford

[Milltown Row2]

Ok watched the game,

First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards

Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.

First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?

So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13

McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..

Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..

The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.

Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped

Overall I felt Gough was outstanding

McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.

[whitey]

Ok watched the game,

First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards

Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.

First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?

So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13

McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..

Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..

The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.

Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped

Overall I felt Gough was outstanding

McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.

What about the two head high tackles either of which could (and should) have been reds

Did he get a yellow for the sliding tackle? (which is outlawed in Gaelic football)

He got away with holy blue murder-no pun intended

Anyone else would have walked

[David McKeown]

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf)

"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."

That's interesting. Why does this rule exist if that's the definition of a bounce?

1.5 When the ball has not been caught it may be bounced more than once in succession?

I mean how would that ever be possible if it only becomes a bounce after you catch it? 

Using that definition the rule basically says. When the ball has not been bounced it may be bounced more than once consecutively provided it's not actually bounced.

Is it any wonder that referees struggle so much and are routinely criticised. It's not even clear what impact kicking it would have using that definition.

All madness.

[Milltown Row2]

Ok watched the game,

First half Dublin gave away 7 frees, McCarthy a push and a challenge that was a note from my view, Dublin got 3 yellow cards

Kerry gave away 4 frees O'Shea lucky not to get a card, there was two frees I'd have given Dublin that weren't given, closed fist on O'Callaghan and Manion not getting one also.

First half all good, the Cluxton Howard combo in first half was serious, so who was marking him?

So over all Kerry gave away 14 frees to Dublins 13

McCarthy gave away 4 frees the whole game, so was waiting to see this rampaging maniac. He got deserved yellow on 58mins for his third free as the player was going past, was not a deliberate pull down so no black, dirty, yes. The last free was bare minimum a note, as I said before you can have a note yellow and a note before getting second yellow..

Dublin ended up with 4 yellows to Kerry's 2, O'Shea lucky not to get a yellow plus 3 consecutive frees on mccaffery when he came on someone should have got a yellow..

The hop ball with ball with Clifford was simple enough, he blew for what he thought was dragging, spoke to his umpires and decided to hop it for both players shenanigans between themselves, it was the right call, but legally I'm not sure.

Kerry had a simple free they won earlier but slabbering for some reason the ball was hopped

Overall I felt Gough was outstanding

McCarthy is one player like Copper before him in the recent past is the type of player you want going out to battle.

What about the two head high tackles either of which could (and should) have been reds

Did he get a yellow for the sliding tackle? (which is outlawed in Gaelic football)

He got away with holy blue murder-no pun intended

Anyone else would have walked

Watch it back, O'Shea did similar tackle same call from Gough, it wasn't a sliding tackle either, Kerry lad went down to get the ball, McCarthy tried to poke it away, free, you really need to watch it back..

It was a yellow card offence, wasn't as bad as you are making out, I seen plenty big tackles but nothing you wouldn't expect in a championship game, let alone inter county senior final.

On the free count Kerry were worse, Gough yellow carded 3 Dubs in the first half, seemed to be he was being tough when it mattered.

As said first a free, push, no card, second note at best (same result for Kerry man minute later) 3 free was yellow, well deserved, last free attempt to play ball, no sliding in or any major contact

[Wildweasel74]

He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card

[Milltown Row2]

He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card

He made a poor attempt was more of a lazy outstretched arm, not a clothesline either, there were similar tackles in the game, I highlighted two Kerry tackles were hands were around face area, no cards given. People see what they want to see and outraged, he done two two soft fouls one note and one definitely a yellow.

[guevara]

He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card

WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.

Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.

Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.

[Milltown Row2]

He body checked a man (high too) after the ball was gone, and he could pulled out, how was that not a black card

WW let him at it. He will argue black is white for the sake of sticking up for a fellow Referee. He was on here arguing about decisions then admitted he had not even seen all incidents.

Conveniently left out the Costello strike that was clear as day.

Gough had a bad day with the big decision. McCarthy regardless of the amount of fouls was endangering oppopponents in his manner and style of tackling, with little or o attempt made to play the ball.

You asked me to watch it, I did, I gave you my opinion, whether you agree or not that's fine, saying I'll argue black is white while saying you are right is a bit rich, but not strange considering your posts on the matter.

I said Gough missed a few tackles also, you have left that out, O'Shea should have had a yellow, but hey ho. Kerry were fouling the most, but 13 frees per team in such a big game isn't a lot