Man Utd Thread:

[Captain Obvious]

The appointment of David Moyes will take Manchester United years to recover from. The United board only have themselves to blame and if Van Gaal or any decent manager was brought in to replace Ferguson maybe they wouldn't find themselves in this current situation.

[Fender]

We all heard from alot of lads how great an appointment Moyes was. He wasn't and I had doubts about him at the time as well. LVG is another poor appointment in my eyes. Been plying his trade in the low-value arena of international management, a fractious relationship with the media and his only significant silverware was 20 years ago when European football was a very different place. He won a Bundesliga at Bayern when alot if lads here would have said it was Mickey Mouse league a long way behind the Spanish and English ones. He didn't build a team at Bayern, was there for about a season and he has a less than distinguished record at signing players. That won't suffice at United with a 150 million war chest.

If you're advocating the great appointment of LVG and Giggs, remember you probably sung the praises of Moyes and ex-United stalwart Phil Neville as well. As a Pool fan I didn't fear the appointment of Moyes, I thought it was an error and once again LVG isn't a signing that sends shivers down my spine.

Away and lay down down will ye!!

[gallsman]

Surprised Ryan Giggs' retirement hasn't received a comment here yet. As a Liverpool fan, I just wanted to say well done to him. He's had a fantastic career, and is probably *the* player of the Premiership era. An absolute legend for Manchester United, and someone I've always admired as a player.

He also shags his in laws.

2nd reply. Was wondering how long it would take.

Couldn't resist. Actually agree with all your sentiments though.

[deiseach]

I'll say this much for Giggs. Bundling the announcement of his retirement in with the announcement of Van Gaal's appointment was pretty classy. No look-at-me about Giggs. It's almost like he took out a super-injunction on the reporting of his retirement. Hey, I never said I was going to be entirelyfair!

[yellowcard]

Van Gaal is in a no lose situation really. Moyes has made his job a lot easier by the calmity that was last season. If Man Utd finish in the top 4 this season it will have been considered a success by most supporters. If he wins the title he will be considered a genius. With serious investment in the summer, which I think will happen, I think they will challenege for the title without actually winning it. That will be enough to earn him some respect from Man utd fans in his first season. The problem is that he will go in with a short term view as its very unlikely that he will be around for any more than 3 or 4 seasons and he will not be likely to take a long term view. As for Giggs being number 2, well its really a minor postscript. What does a number 2 actually do? If its a succession plan for the job after Van Gaal then I think its the wrong move. He needed to go out and broaden his experience at another club and actually take on the role as manager. Being a number 2 is a lot different since you can still maintain a close relationship with players as the hard decisions will be taken by the manager.

In summary, I expect the Van Gaal job to work in the short term as expectations have been lowered during the Moyes era, however long term it could present a bigger problem. The hierarchy have gone in totally the opposite direction than they did when they appointed Moyes. Short term success now appears to have taken precedence over long term stability and it makes you wonder has Woodward actually got a vision for the club or is he simply making it up as he goes along. 

[Geoff Tipps]

How are you comparing his CV to Moyes? Nobody was saying how great  an appointment Moyes was at the time. btw he brought through Alaba, Muller, Kroos, Badstuber at Bayern

A decent CV

Ajax

1991-92 Eredivisie: 2nd, Uefa Cup: Winner, KNVB Cup: QF
1992-93 Eredivisie: 3rd, Uefa Cup: QF, KNVB Cup: Winner
1993-94 Eredivisie: 1st, Cup Winners' Cup: QF, KNVB Cup: SF
1994-95 Eredivisie: 1st, Champions League: Winner, KNVB Cup: QF
1995-96 Eredivisie: 1st, Champions League: Final, KNVB Cup: Last 16
1996-97 Eredivisie: 4th, Champions League: SF, KNVB Cup: 1st round

Barcelona

1997-98 La Liga: 1st, Champions League: Group, Copa del Rey: Winner
1998-99 La Liga: 1st, Champions League: Group, Copa del Rey: QF
1999-00 La Liga: 2nd, Champions League: SF, Copa del Rey: SF

Netherlands

2000-02 World Cup qualifying: P10 W6 D2 L2, 30 scored, 9 conceded

Barcelona

2002-03 (at time of sacking) La Liga: 12th, Champions League: 2nd group, Copa del Rey: 1st round

AZ Alkmaar

2005-06 Eredivisie: 2nd, Europa League: last 32, KNVB Cup: SF
2006-07 Eredivisie: 3rd, Europa League: QF, KNVB Cup: Final
2007-08 Eredivisie: 11th, Europa League: Group stage, KNVB Cup: 2nd round
2008-09 Eredivisie: 1st, KNVB Cup: QFs

Bayern Munich

2009-10 Bundesliga: 1st, Champions League: Final, DFB-Pokal: Winners
2010-11 (at time of sacking) Bundesliga: 4th, Champions League: Last 16, DFB-Pokal: SF

Netherlands

2012-14 World Cup qualifying: P10, W9, D1, L0, 34 scored, 5 conceded

The managerial highlight on that CV is almost 20 years ago.
2 league wins this century.

[rodney trotter]

He won the Dutch title with Az Alkmar in 09, they are a small club in comparison to Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord.  But no surprise to see you trolling on the Utd thread as usuL

[Walter Cronc]

Surely thats a typo. He finished 12th with Barca!!!!!

[Geoff Tipps]

He won the Dutch title with Az Alkmar in 09, they are a small club in comparison to Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord.  But no surprise to see you trolling on the Utd thread as usuL

Yes and the other title he won was with Bayern Munich who are a very big club.
Not trolling Rodders, just pointing out that most of his major achievements are not recent.

[EC Unique]

Maybe people should just wait and see what happens. Anything could happen in this game. I would like to think that Utd will bounce back up into the top 4 and maybe push for a league title but until the transfer window closes it is hard to say. Liverpool proved last season that the unexpected can happen.

[deiseach]

If I were a Man Utd fan I'd be very confident of Van Gaal getting them back into the top four. He has hit the ground running at all his clubs - if memory serves me correct, AZ were top of the Dutch league in 2007 going into the last day before 'blowing it'; there you go, Liverpool fans, you can recover from that happening - and his policy of not suffering fools gladly is something that is necessary at a club where so many players cocked a snook at the previous manager for the crime of not being Alex Ferguson.

Having said all that, if I were a Man Utd fan I would have thought that David Moyes was the ideal appointment because he would slot effortlessly into the well-oiled machine constructed by Alex Ferguson, that he would be given as much time as was necessary because Man Utd don't sack managers like other clubs lacking the moral fibre of the Red Devils, and there were absolutely no lessons to be learned from previous occasions when a club had to replace a giant of the game because Man Utd had re-written the DNA of English football.

[magpie seanie]

I sincerely hope the rumours are not true. Does anyone seriously think David Moyes is anywhere near good enough to manage United? The only manager out there who could be attainable who wouldn't be a huge step down would be Mourinho. He wouldn't be everythnig you'd want but he'd keep United winning and probably bring Ronaldo with him.

[magpie seanie]

Nobody was saying how great an appointment Moyes was at the time.

I couldn't be assed trawling through the board for examples but there was hundreds. Here's a general gist of how Man U seen Moyes at the start, Rafa at Chelsea he wasn't.



Alaba, Muller, Kroos were all products of Bayern's acadamy. Van Gall was there for a year and a half, he's a minor figure in the development of those players.

Also he was sacked by Bayern, so they obviously weren't a fan of his approach and they been doing pretty fecking well since.




Post- Script: f**k it it's too much fun not to include some more Moyes Hysteria; apologies for dragging it up MS but forgive me if I remain sceptical of the Van Gaal hype machine.

I think United will do well because (a) they have a very good squad as it is; (b) I am pretty sure United will spend a lot this summer to strengthen the squad, the club will be extremely anxious to show the transition is working; (c) after my initial negative reaction I'm beginning to think Moyes is actually the perfect replacement in these circumstances.

As regards to the "back seat driver" issue I cannot see Ferguson doing that. He is far too cute for that. He will help Moyes as and when Moyes wants - I'd be shocked if it hasn't been discussed and agreed.

The big challengers will be Chelsea and city of course (Arsenal will buy and improve but not enough to really challenge). Interesting that all 3 will have new bosses at the helm - who will settle in quickest. My hunch is United is the most stable environment so I'm boldly predicting that Moyes takes the title in year 1!

If you go back on this thread (pages 1794/5) around May last year you will see very little if any evidence to support your  fantasy notion that United fans were delighted with Moyes' appointment. My own position is clear, despite the above erroneous prediction. I thought United could win the league despite Moyes as I knew it was a poor enough league. I was right about the league being weak but didn't envisage Moyes tearing out the backroom team and only signing a lampshade in the summer.

Most United fans thought at worst Moyes would be a steady hand to try and keep the ship going the way Fergie had it going. He tried to do it his own way and we saw the results. Van Gall's way has worked elsewhere and there's no reason to suspect it won't work at United.

[deiseach]

It's been bandied about so much that it has become a truism, but I don't buy this idea that Moyes' cardinal error was bringing in his own backroom staff. I certainly don't recall there being widespread misgivings at the departure of the colossi that are Rene Meulensteen and Mike Phelan. When you appoint a new manager from outside the club, surely you are giving him carte blance to appoint his own backroom staff? Would any manager worth his salt take the job under conditions where he has to accept his predecessor's underlings? I notice Giggs will be Van Gaal's assistant manager, but seeing as Van Gaal will be bringing in an assistant coach as well I think Giggs' involvement will be rather hands-off.  There was no well-oiled machine. There was just Alex Ferguson. To think otherwise is hubris.

[rodney trotter]

Moyes was entitled to bring who he wanted. He was coming into a new job and brought in people he already worked with, it didn't work out. Obviously in hindsight it would have better if he had kept that managment team on.

Ronald De Boer speaking today, about Van Gaal giving young talent a chance http://t.co/tiX2Xbpm18