Armagh v Derry - Ulster Final, 14th May, 2023 @ 4pm

[Pub Bore]

The problem the Derry county board have now is that they've no control of the situation and no control over what will happen over the coming days and weeks in terms of backlash and bad pr.  They would be in a much stronger position if they pulled Rory Gallagher aside and said, listen it's best for you and us if you step aside for a while.

Yeah im absolutely amazed they didnt do this. Its a tricky spot, unprecedented in GAA circles, but it clearly both the right thing to do, and the most straight forward way of handling the scenario. They are now actually self combusting as many supporters dont want him on the line, whereas others attitudes have hardened and are defending him.

For Derry the problems mount on Sunday, and the obstacles keep coming thereafter.

It is a case study in how not to handle this. Over the weekend I would fully expect things to intensify.

It's a PR disaster for the Derry CB.

[David McKeown]

Gallagher is a volunteer on paper who gets "expenses". They can cut him loose at any time. He has no working contract.

I wouldn't like to be a county board and have to test that.

[seafoid]

D2 final Derry vs Dubs and the 4 goals

https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1642538411557900292

A square ball, a soft penalty and a point effort that went in top corner against a weakened Derry team - Dubs had a lot of luck with those goals. I wouldn't read too much into it as the Job was done before the game.

The Dubs waltzed through the backs all afternoon. That would worry me if I was a Derry fan

People's memories must be completely warped about that National League final... Derry were 6-4 up at HT and played really well before Glass went off!

The game has 2 halves. Derry obviously don't have anyone to replace Glass. There is a hole in the bucket !

[imtommygunn]

McCloskey - who's a fantastic player btw - got absolutely cleaned out by O'Callaghan and Dublin targeted him. He wasn't getting any cover. Few things are Glass or McKaigue weren't there and you'll see few as good as O'Callaghan but Derry did get destroyed there and whether the goals had good fortune to them they had enough chances that if they were needed they would likely have found others.

[Itchy]

Gallagher is a volunteer on paper who gets "expenses". They can cut him loose at any time. He has no working contract.

I wouldn't like to be a county board and have to test that.

I wouldnt say it is a big thing at all, managers are "sacked" all the time and I don't recall there ever being an unfair dismissal case taken against the county board. I suppose unless Gallagher is employed as something else official in Derry which would change things for sure.

[Mario]

McCloskey - who's a fantastic player btw - got absolutely cleaned out by O'Callaghan and Dublin targeted him. He wasn't getting any cover. Few things are Glass or McKaigue weren't there and you'll see few as good as O'Callaghan but Derry did get destroyed there and whether the goals had good fortune to them they had enough chances that if they were needed they would likely have found others.

A bit of an exaggeration, O'Callaghan didn't even score.

[HiMucker]

**I'll start with saying that Gallagher should be stepped down for Sunday's game and beyond.  And I am still hoping this happens. If he'd any gumption he would've done it himself, but everyone in Derry from the sponsors, to the players and the supporters should be making it clear to the county board that being associated with Gallagher completely tarnishes anything they achieve now and in the future with him at the helm.  If (Big If at the minute) Derry win on Sunday, Would anyone in the country be happy seeing Gallagher celebrate with the Anglo-Celt?**

It also looks like Derry are maintaining their radio silence as well. No official team announcement on their socials yet. Gaelic Life announced that it would be the same team as the Monaghan game.

As for the actual game on Sunday, I think that Armagh will push up on Derry's kick outs and try to make life as miserable as possible for Lynch. Same as they did for Patton last year in Clones. They'd either try to force Lynch into making mistakes, or as has happened in previous games, delay him for long enough for the ref to call it.  Its not like Armagh don't have big men around the middle of the pitch to cope with the ball being pinged out there. This is why I think McFaul will start, though he isn't named in the starting 15, to give Derry another option around the middle.

Similarly I think that Derry will try to do the same on the Armagh kick out, and force Rafferty into mistakes, but this could be the game where Lynch gets caught further out the field on the opposition kick out. It almost happened against Fermanagh and Monaghan. And better teams like Armagh will punish that.

Derry will also be severely tested under the high ball, but Armagh need to have something else worked out too.  Can't be doing that for 70mins+. Against Dublin the high ball was a square ball, and the 3 they conceded from "high balls" in the first two rounds were bad shots that happened to drop short. I'd say Donaghy has something else worked out for the forwards to be at.

Armagh will be a completely different animal to what Derry have faced so far, Fermanagh were missing Quigley, Monaghan had too many 30+s in the team.  Armagh are approaching this with a clean bill of health (at the minute) and a hunger to win an Ulster Title.  Plus the fitness levels and the subs off the bench, will be different to anything Derry faced in the league and championship so far, aside from the Dubs. And given what has happened this week, this tips the balance, ever so slightly, in favour of Armagh. 

Armagh won't have been distracted one bit by the news this week, could even give them a bit more focus.  But Derry's final week prep will have been tossed out the window. Derry players will be fielding questions from friends and family and work colleagues all week about non-football stuff, so it'll be hard to know where their heads are at. As well as that, the officials could definitely form part of the storyline on Sunday as well.  Gallagher (if he is on the sideline) has been spoken to by the officials a few times this year. How will they react to his normal match day behaviour? Will they clamp down on his antics more than other officials have done previously?

On Monday I'd have said Derry -4, and been fairly positive about the result.
Now, not so much.  I'd be happy just to get out of Clones with any sort of victory.

Great post.

+1

+2

[Armamike]

The problem the Derry county board have now is that they've no control of the situation and no control over what will happen over the coming days and weeks in terms of backlash and bad pr.  They would be in a much stronger position if they pulled Rory Gallagher aside and said, listen it's best for you and us if you step aside for a while.

Usually people step aside following an arrest and pending the outcome of an investigation. There has been an investigation already carried out here and he wasn't charged, so how long does he step aside for?

Yes it's a judgement call as he isn't charged with anything. But you have to take into account the heat and spotlight that will be on him, the players, the CB and the GAA.

[Armamike]

The problem the Derry county board have now is that they've no control of the situation and no control over what will happen over the coming days and weeks in terms of backlash and bad pr.  They would be in a much stronger position if they pulled Rory Gallagher aside and said, listen it's best for you and us if you step aside for a while.

They do have control, if they make the decision for him. They've seemingly decided to wing it. Poor form.

Agreed.  My point was that by not doing anything they do not have control over the situation and unless some of the heat is taken out it's just going to get worse. 

[seafoid]

The problem the Derry county board have now is that they've no control of the situation and no control over what will happen over the coming days and weeks in terms of backlash and bad pr.  They would be in a much stronger position if they pulled Rory Gallagher aside and said, listen it's best for you and us if you step aside for a while.

They do have control, if they make the decision for him. They've seemingly decided to wing it. Poor form.

Agreed.  My point was that by not doing anything they do not have control over the situation and unless some of the heat is taken out it's just going to get worse.

They might have decided to wait until Sunday and see how many protestors turn up. The situation is fluid

[smelmoth]

Armagh men, what level of abuse will be fired at RG's way? IMO he deserves every last ounce of it.

If he does come out onto the line, I hope there's an almighty boo, with a few choice words thrown in there.

Hopefully Gough has his wits about him and puts him in his place, his carry-on along the line is way out of line.

Several different issues there.

I still think it hugely unlikely that he will be there on Sunday. If he is I'm not seeing the issue as being sledging between the teams or between Armagh players and RG. The issue or the potential for an issue is between RG and the crowd. Concerted booing might reach him but I doubt any individual taunt as the slightest chance of reaching his ears.

As for fans entering the fray surely that has to be a very remote possibility. The bigger risk is the inevitable final whistle invasion. Definite potential for that to get ugly.

Then there is the potential for a coordinated protest and one group have already been named. No clue what that will entail.

[smelmoth]

The problem the Derry county board have now is that they've no control of the situation and no control over what will happen over the coming days and weeks in terms of backlash and bad pr.  They would be in a much stronger position if they pulled Rory Gallagher aside and said, listen it's best for you and us if you step aside for a while.

They do have control, if they make the decision for him. They've seemingly decided to wing it. Poor form.

Agreed.  My point was that by not doing anything they do not have control over the situation and unless some of the heat is taken out it's just going to get worse.

They might have decided to wait until Sunday and see how many protestors turn up. The situation is fluid

I would say that is the most improbable thing I've read on a thread with a certain amount of speculation

[Walter Cronc]

You should have been an author smelmoth. You've a vivid imagination!

[Armagh18]

You should have been an author smelmoth. You've a vivid imagination!

none of that seems unlikely or improbable at all

[Taylor]

If he is on the sideline on Sunday then there is no way back for Derry CB.

Regardless of what happens after Sunday - even if he steps down - there is enough PR damage to hurt them for quite some time.

Seeing groups organising protests, female members of clubs handing tickets back etc shows the feeling of discontent among the public. And this will intensify all of next week if he is present Sunday.

The rights and wrongs of the case - presumption of innocence until proven guilty etc mean absolutely nothing now as this has spiraled due to the statements of RG/Derry CB and the revelation that prosecution wasnt proceeded with due to the PPS.

Its an incredibly messy situation that will run and run due to indecisive actions