Donegal vs Armagh Ulster Championship 2022

[Rossfan]

Not much between half way line and the 65s!

[seafoid]

Typical Geezer. Flop well before the Ulster final.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGP9uz4s8hQ

[David McKeown]

Having now watched the game back I stand by my initial comments. Armagh we're very poor and Donegal we're very good and deserved to win comfortably. Deegan had a very poor game. I see no foul in the build up to the goal. The ball to me seems to bounce out of the keepers hands as much as it is taken out. It then seems to go in off the keeper.

The McHugh decision was soft as well. Whether that would have made a difference or not we will never know. But we do know though is that ultimately Donegal we're the far better side yesterday.

It's not the big decisions that annoyed me with Deegan's performance yesterday. It's the smaller things. A lot of this may be down to loss aversion as humans tend to put far more weight on the things that go against them rather than what goes for them but Deegan seemed to give Donegal their frees far more easily but also played advantage to Donegal far more. It seemed like similar tackles were not being refereed in similar ways.

I think what most drew my ire were four incidents. Two in each half. In the first half one of the Donegal midfielders was pushed out over the sideline. A free was correctly awarded. Before it was taken there was some pushing and shoving for the ball and the referee immediately indicated an advantage before Donegal even took the kick. I can't fathom what kind of advantage he thought he was playing. Shortly after there was a swarm tackle situation. As the whistle blew Rian O'Neill won the ball and played a quick pass. Now the whistle had gone but Deegan hadn't indicated which way the free had been awarded (and it wasn't obvious) and O'Neill had his back to him. Deegan moved the free up.

In the second half Deegan warned the Donegal keeper several times to hurry up then did nothing and let him take his time. Finally the incident that annoyed me most was when he awarded a hop ball following what I thought was a foul by an Armagh player. Now either it was a foul and was a free out or the defender fell on the ball and touched it on the ground and should have been in a free in.  Before the hop ball was taken both teams made a substitution. Before the departing players left the field Deegan restarted the match. The sideline official ran on and told the Armagh sub to come off but didn't go after the Donegal sub. As a result Donegal had sixteen men on the field. They won the hop ball went up the pitch and won a free that Murphy ultimately scored. All with 16 men on the pitch.

Those little things can cumulatively be very frustrating for a supporter. They can impact the flow and momentum of a match.

For me Deegan had a poor game which thankfully didn't impact the result although I appreciate it's a very difficult job. I agree with Oisin that we should at least trial two referees at senior inter county level.

On the current Armagh squad I think it's as strong as it has been in 15 years. It may lack the top drawer player with the exception of O'Neill but conversely I think the average standard is better with maybe 22 or 23 players who are decent but not spectacular inter county footballers. I also think they are a young team and with the manager can improve.

I've also said I think they are closer to the top table than they have been since 2005 but I think a lot of that has been down to other teams coming back to them as much as it's been them catching up.

[seanaglis]

Armagh stayed the night in Jacksons- right in the middle in Ballybofey.

Would it not have been wiser to stay somewhere a few miles outside the town- less interactions with supporters staying for the match hyping them up and asking for photos etc?

Was in the lobby before the match and it was strange to see i thought

[Oraisteach]

David, excellent assessment.

[thewobbler]

Armagh stayed the night in Jacksons- right in the middle in Ballybofey.

Would it not have been wiser to stay somewhere a few miles outside the town- less interactions with supporters staying for the match hyping them up and asking for photos etc?

Was in the lobby before the match and it was strange to see i thought

It's an unnecessary expenditure full stop. It's what, maybe just over an hour from Armagh City to Ballybofey. Americans would call them neighbouring towns.

David I think you're suffering a little there from trying to prove the hypothesis by any means necessary. Career defenders give away fewer fouls than converted defenders, largely because since they were nippers they've been learning week-in, week-out where the fine line lies between physical play and a foul, and also can read referees better from the early exchanges. Armagh had too many players on Sunday who aren't experienced enough at defending to judge that line as well.

Re Rian's disallowed goal. I saw it as charging into the keeper myself. Between that, the general acceptance that smashing a keeper in the small square isn't a done thing, the general confusion and the thrown ball, it's a free 99 times out of 100 with 99 referees out of 100. The exception being when a brave or biased umpire makes a name for himself.

[redzone]

David dry your eyes

[Milltown Row2]

Having now watched the game back I stand by my initial comments. Armagh we're very poor and Donegal we're very good and deserved to win comfortably. Deegan had a very poor game. I see no foul in the build up to the goal. The ball to me seems to bounce out of the keepers hands as much as it is taken out. It then seems to go in off the keeper.

The McHugh decision was soft as well. Whether that would have made a difference or not we will never know. But we do know though is that ultimately Donegal we're the far better side yesterday.

It's not the big decisions that annoyed me with Deegan's performance yesterday. It's the smaller things. A lot of this may be down to loss aversion as humans tend to put far more weight on the things that go against them rather than what goes for them but Deegan seemed to give Donegal their frees far more easily but also played advantage to Donegal far more. It seemed like similar tackles were not being refereed in similar ways.

I think what most drew my ire were four incidents. Two in each half. In the first half one of the Donegal midfielders was pushed out over the sideline. A free was correctly awarded. Before it was taken there was some pushing and shoving for the ball and the referee immediately indicated an advantage before Donegal even took the kick. I can't fathom what kind of advantage he thought he was playing. Shortly after there was a swarm tackle situation. As the whistle blew Rian O'Neill won the ball and played a quick pass. Now the whistle had gone but Deegan hadn't indicated which way the free had been awarded (and it wasn't obvious) and O'Neill had his back to him. Deegan moved the free up.

In the second half Deegan warned the Donegal keeper several times to hurry up then did nothing and let him take his time. Finally the incident that annoyed me most was when he awarded a hop ball following what I thought was a foul by an Armagh player. Now either it was a foul and was a free out or the defender fell on the ball and touched it on the ground and should have been in a free in.  Before the hop ball was taken both teams made a substitution. Before the departing players left the field Deegan restarted the match. The sideline official ran on and told the Armagh sub to come off but didn't go after the Donegal sub. As a result Donegal had sixteen men on the field. They won the hop ball went up the pitch and won a free that Murphy ultimately scored. All with 16 men on the pitch.

Those little things can cumulatively be very frustrating for a supporter. They can impact the flow and momentum of a match.

For me Deegan had a poor game which thankfully didn't impact the result although I appreciate it's a very difficult job. I agree with Oisin that we should at least trial two referees at senior inter county level.

On the current Armagh squad I think it's as strong as it has been in 15 years. It may lack the top drawer player with the exception of O'Neill but conversely I think the average standard is better with maybe 22 or 23 players who are decent but not spectacular inter county footballers. I also think they are a young team and with the manager can improve.

I've also said I think they are closer to the top table than they have been since 2005 but I think a lot of that has been down to other teams coming back to them as much as it's been them catching up.

It's good that you can re watch the game back under the comfort of the settee, be able to stop rewind the action, having many camera angles and no tension confusion and other distractions around you.

The ref has one opportunity to carry out his duties under the microscope of thousands of supporters at the ground, the players and managers.

Did you manage to watch all the handling errors wrong decision the players made and poor tactics the managers made?

[David McKeown]

Having now watched the game back I stand by my initial comments. Armagh we're very poor and Donegal we're very good and deserved to win comfortably. Deegan had a very poor game. I see no foul in the build up to the goal. The ball to me seems to bounce out of the keepers hands as much as it is taken out. It then seems to go in off the keeper.

The McHugh decision was soft as well. Whether that would have made a difference or not we will never know. But we do know though is that ultimately Donegal we're the far better side yesterday.

It's not the big decisions that annoyed me with Deegan's performance yesterday. It's the smaller things. A lot of this may be down to loss aversion as humans tend to put far more weight on the things that go against them rather than what goes for them but Deegan seemed to give Donegal their frees far more easily but also played advantage to Donegal far more. It seemed like similar tackles were not being refereed in similar ways.

I think what most drew my ire were four incidents. Two in each half. In the first half one of the Donegal midfielders was pushed out over the sideline. A free was correctly awarded. Before it was taken there was some pushing and shoving for the ball and the referee immediately indicated an advantage before Donegal even took the kick. I can't fathom what kind of advantage he thought he was playing. Shortly after there was a swarm tackle situation. As the whistle blew Rian O'Neill won the ball and played a quick pass. Now the whistle had gone but Deegan hadn't indicated which way the free had been awarded (and it wasn't obvious) and O'Neill had his back to him. Deegan moved the free up.

In the second half Deegan warned the Donegal keeper several times to hurry up then did nothing and let him take his time. Finally the incident that annoyed me most was when he awarded a hop ball following what I thought was a foul by an Armagh player. Now either it was a foul and was a free out or the defender fell on the ball and touched it on the ground and should have been in a free in.  Before the hop ball was taken both teams made a substitution. Before the departing players left the field Deegan restarted the match. The sideline official ran on and told the Armagh sub to come off but didn't go after the Donegal sub. As a result Donegal had sixteen men on the field. They won the hop ball went up the pitch and won a free that Murphy ultimately scored. All with 16 men on the pitch.

Those little things can cumulatively be very frustrating for a supporter. They can impact the flow and momentum of a match.

For me Deegan had a poor game which thankfully didn't impact the result although I appreciate it's a very difficult job. I agree with Oisin that we should at least trial two referees at senior inter county level.

On the current Armagh squad I think it's as strong as it has been in 15 years. It may lack the top drawer player with the exception of O'Neill but conversely I think the average standard is better with maybe 22 or 23 players who are decent but not spectacular inter county footballers. I also think they are a young team and with the manager can improve.

I've also said I think they are closer to the top table than they have been since 2005 but I think a lot of that has been down to other teams coming back to them as much as it's been them catching up.

It's good that you can re watch the game back under the comfort of the settee, be able to stop rewind the action, having many camera angles and no tension confusion and other distractions around you.

The ref has one opportunity to carry out his duties under the microscope of thousands of supporters at the ground, the players and managers.

Did you manage to watch all the handling errors wrong decision the players made and poor tactics the managers made?

Am I to infer that means referees can not have bad games? I've said for years that I think the game is too big too fast and too professional for one single amateur referee. I also think that they do not get enough assistance from the association. But I do not feel that leaves them above reproach when providing an honest assessment of their performance.

[thewobbler]

I've watched NFL games over the past few years with 8 officials on the field, the extraordinary advantage of the clock stopping literally all the time, and a central VAR time supervising every single match - and they still make calls that make your head scratch, and they still have calls to make where it's impossible to be sure if they're right.

More officials doesn't improve things. In our sport, it would just mean more officials to complain about.

[David McKeown]

Armagh stayed the night in Jacksons- right in the middle in Ballybofey.

Would it not have been wiser to stay somewhere a few miles outside the town- less interactions with supporters staying for the match hyping them up and asking for photos etc?

Was in the lobby before the match and it was strange to see i thought

It's an unnecessary expenditure full stop. It's what, maybe just over an hour from Armagh City to Ballybofey. Americans would call them neighbouring towns.

David I think you're suffering a little there from trying to prove the hypothesis by any means necessary. Career defenders give away fewer fouls than converted defenders, largely because since they were nippers they've been learning week-in, week-out where the fine line lies between physical play and a foul, and also can read referees better from the early exchanges. Armagh had too many players on Sunday who aren't experienced enough at defending to judge that line as well.

Re Rian's disallowed goal. I saw it as charging into the keeper myself. Between that, the general acceptance that smashing a keeper in the small square isn't a done thing, the general confusion and the thrown ball, it's a free 99 times out of 100 with 99 referees out of 100. The exception being when a brave or biased umpire makes a name for himself.

I see your point on defenders. I think one on one Armaghs defenders are not the strongest and they rely on a disciplined well marshalled system to succeed. In that regard Armagh are probably lacking. In terms of the goal I think we can agree to disagree.

[David McKeown]

I've watched NFL games over the past few years with 8 officials on the field, the extraordinary advantage of the clock stopping literally all the time, and a central VAR time supervising every single match - and they still make calls that make your head scratch, and they still have calls to make where it's impossible to be sure if they're right.

More officials doesn't improve things. In our sport, it would just mean more officials to complain about.

It almost goes too far the other way. I just don't think it's fair expecting an amateur ref to cover games the size and speed of our games with little help.

[Milltown Row2]

But you've the benefit of re watching it. The ref is well supported at that level for sure. None of them are beyond reproach and get their assessments the next day. Someone is in the stand writing up reports.

He'll go away from a game like most ref's and be be self critical about their game.

[Main Street]

You want the perfect ref David and you only list the contested  decisions that went against Armagh

Looking at it again, Maurice could not have seen how the goalie lost the ball, if ever he did have it under his control, but Rian was the player who was most in possession of the ball afterwards, at the very least he made contact once, twice  and then palmed it into the net.  It doesn't have the look of a clean strike of a loose ball.

[balladmaker]

Having now watched the game back I stand by my initial comments. Armagh we're very poor and Donegal we're very good and deserved to win comfortably. Deegan had a very poor game. I see no foul in the build up to the goal. The ball to me seems to bounce out of the keepers hands as much as it is taken out. It then seems to go in off the keeper.

The McHugh decision was soft as well. Whether that would have made a difference or not we will never know. But we do know though is that ultimately Donegal we're the far better side yesterday.

It's not the big decisions that annoyed me with Deegan's performance yesterday. It's the smaller things. A lot of this may be down to loss aversion as humans tend to put far more weight on the things that go against them rather than what goes for them but Deegan seemed to give Donegal their frees far more easily but also played advantage to Donegal far more. It seemed like similar tackles were not being refereed in similar ways.

I think what most drew my ire were four incidents. Two in each half. In the first half one of the Donegal midfielders was pushed out over the sideline. A free was correctly awarded. Before it was taken there was some pushing and shoving for the ball and the referee immediately indicated an advantage before Donegal even took the kick. I can't fathom what kind of advantage he thought he was playing. Shortly after there was a swarm tackle situation. As the whistle blew Rian O'Neill won the ball and played a quick pass. Now the whistle had gone but Deegan hadn't indicated which way the free had been awarded (and it wasn't obvious) and O'Neill had his back to him. Deegan moved the free up.

In the second half Deegan warned the Donegal keeper several times to hurry up then did nothing and let him take his time. Finally the incident that annoyed me most was when he awarded a hop ball following what I thought was a foul by an Armagh player. Now either it was a foul and was a free out or the defender fell on the ball and touched it on the ground and should have been in a free in.  Before the hop ball was taken both teams made a substitution. Before the departing players left the field Deegan restarted the match. The sideline official ran on and told the Armagh sub to come off but didn't go after the Donegal sub. As a result Donegal had sixteen men on the field. They won the hop ball went up the pitch and won a free that Murphy ultimately scored. All with 16 men on the pitch.

Those little things can cumulatively be very frustrating for a supporter. They can impact the flow and momentum of a match.

For me Deegan had a poor game which thankfully didn't impact the result although I appreciate it's a very difficult job. I agree with Oisin that we should at least trial two referees at senior inter county level.

On the current Armagh squad I think it's as strong as it has been in 15 years. It may lack the top drawer player with the exception of O'Neill but conversely I think the average standard is better with maybe 22 or 23 players who are decent but not spectacular inter county footballers. I also think they are a young team and with the manager can improve.

I've also said I think they are closer to the top table than they have been since 2005 but I think a lot of that has been down to other teams coming back to them as much as it's been them catching up.

Good assessment.  However, I'm not with you or Oisin with having a ref in each half of the field .... effectively, we'd have different standards and decisions being made in both halves of the field by two different refs ... oh wait, we have that as well with only one ref.  Anyway, ensure each ref reaches a certain fitness level, ensure their eye-sight is top notch, ensure their logic and decision making abilities are consistent ... and once they make a serious blunder, red card them and send them for re-training. 

Donegal got a score with 16 men on the field ... it's time to call in the lawyers again 

There's a serious gap now for first round losers and the next game ... would much prefer to see Armagh playing again this weekend than to ponder the performance for another month.