Sectarian abuse from the free staters

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

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Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).

is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?

[michaelg]

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Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).

is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?

So that does make it alright then?  It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway.  I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an "inaccurate and insulting picture", when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

...
Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).

is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?

So that does make it alright then?  It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway.  I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an inaccurate picture, when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.

I was merely pointing out that you can take ("highlight") any (sporting) organisation, literally, and extract a specific example to suit any particular agenda, but therein lies the road to stasis.

There's no benefit in focusing on the specifics as they apply to any locality, particularly as it relates to  the period we have not long come through, but it really would be preferable to focus on the positive aspects of what might lie ahead, I'd say. Yes, there will be awkward situations, but as has been repeated here ad nauseam, no one will be turned away from the door of a GAA club on the basis of caste, colour, creed or politics.

[Baile Brigín 2]

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Would you still standy by bolded statement above in light of the recent Clonoe commemoration?

michaelg, with respect, I think you take the particular as representative of the whole (a synecdoche, perhaps), ie, Clonoe is its own place, who are commemorating three past members, but which is in little or no way indicative of the organisation on a wider level in Ireland, north and south (how many potential local non-nationalists will be dissuaded from involvement as a result, for example?).

is the newly founded East Belfast GAA likely to repeat such an exercise, for example? Might a little perspective be better employed here?

So that does make it alright then?  It's certainly not going to attract non-nationalists in the area anyway.  I was just highlighting the point that you can't witter on about hardline unionists painting an inaccurate picture, when commemorations like this are taking place in 2022.

I was merely pointing out that you can take ("highlight") any (sporting) organisation, literally, and extract a specific example to suit any particular agenda, but therein lies the road to stasis.

There's no benefit in focusing on the specifics as they apply to any locality, particularly as it relates to  the period we have not long come through, but it really would be preferable to focus on the positive aspects of what might lie ahead, I'd say. Yes, there will be awkward situations, but as has been repeated here ad nauseam, no one will be turned away from the door of a GAA club on the basis of caste, colour, creed or politics.

But that wasn't the point. Last week a claim was made the GAA don't do politics. Then this week happened.

[Snapchap]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

[michaelg]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

[trueblue1234]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

But unless I'm mistaken your not a nationlist. In many nationists views they are like for like. You may not agree with that view but that's irrelevant if you are genuinely trying to attract nationist interest as that is the view held by many of us.

[red hander]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

But the poppy doesn't just commemorate dead of two world wars, it commemorates all British soldiers killed in colonial settings too. Along with UDR members, who were terrorists in the eyes of the nationalist people. Sorry, but I'd rather not commemorate scum like  Harris Boyle and Wesley Somerville, thank you very much. Or the Black and Tans and Auxilliaries.

[Snapchap]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

[michaelg]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds.  Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc. 

[Snapchap]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds.  Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.

Whatever about your point yesterday, your point today was that "Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds". If you are making that statement, and are so clearly very keen to criticise the GAA for breaching that ideal, then it's a bit overly convenient to at the same time decide you are "not really interested" in talking about when the IFA breach the ideal.

[michaelg]

michaelg: If someone went to Windsor Park and heard GSTQ being played and British War dead being commemorated, and poppy fundraisers for ex-British soldiers, would that make a young nationalist more or less likely to attend/join in?

Given the history of the British Army in the north, do you believe commemorating British War dead/poppys on ni shirts/fundraising for retired British soldiers etc at places like Windsor Park is OK? Or are politically contentious commemorations on sports grounds only wrong when it's the GAA doing it?

Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds.  I know you are not going to agree with me, but I don't think the 2 examples you have provided are like for like.  If there was a UVF memorial for dead terrorists at a local footbal ground, that is not the same as commemorating the dead of 2 World Wars.

You are correct, I do disagree. The poppy appeal doesn't just commemorate the World Wars. It is also a fundraiser for retired British soldiers and a symbol of British militarism. So given the inglorious record of the British Army here, then its hardly surprising to hear that it is a contentious symbol.

So a far as I'm concerned, saying sport should stay clear of politics, and attacking the GAA for breaches of that, but having nothing to say about the FAI promoting the Poppy appeal - or even defending them for doing so - is entirely inconsistent. The poppy may not be political or contentious in England, but let's not pretend that that's non-contentious or non-political in the north of Ireland.

My point yesterday was in response to the assertion that politics and religion is totally unrelated to the GAA in 2022 and that there was no longer anything preventing people from the Unionist community getting involved with with GAA. Commemorations such as the one at Clonoe are going to do little to attract people from non-traditional GAA bacjgrounds.  Not really interested in getting into a whole other debate about poppies etc.

Whatever about your point yesterday, your point today was that "Politically contentious commemorations should be kept away from all sports grounds". If you are making that statement, and are so clearly very keen to criticise the GAA for breaching that ideal, then it's a bit overly convenient to at the same time decide you are "not really interested" in talking about when the IFA breach the ideal.

The statement that are you referring to to was in direct response to a question you asked me. Have a nice evening.

[Milltown Row2]

michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.

Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix

[trueblue1234]

michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.

Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix

But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.

[Milltown Row2]

michaelg is correct, keep that stuff out of the GAA, there are lots of places for those that want to have commemorations. As for Windsor park and GSTQ and poppies, don't go if it offends you, same as unionists feeling offended by the GAA, don't bother.

Sport for sport, politics for politics they shouldn't (imo) mix

But he isn't correct then going by your last line. Sport for sport, politics for politics. As the poppy is a political statement. He is trying to claim the poppy is different and therefore not political. That's not the case as you know.

He's correct in that the GAA shouldn't have these on their grounds, the poppy thing to be honest, for me isn't a problem, I look at it as a charity that provides support. What it represents for others though is something different and is channeled incorrectly by the British media incorrectly, the purpose of the charity was at the time a just one, as the government basically left the wounded and families of ones lost in the war to their own devices to look after themselves.

Being used now, well its like any charity, a money making machine and they will exploit every opportunity to get more money in and are happy enough to have a national period (November) to generate as much as they can. The political statement has changed over the years and to be honest the government are still not doing enough for wounded soldiers or the families of soldiers lost in wars/drills/conflicts, so they are happy to support a group that will take the pressure off them.

The bully tactics tactics by the British media won't last, it will fade out and people will choose a lot more to not do it and won't be pulled on it.

I'm not getting into a poppy argument either