Noah's Army

[WT4E]

Having had occasion to be on Northwood Drive over the last year I just cannot fathom how that child cycled down there naked without hundreds of sightings in the early part of a summer evening.

There must be close to 300 houses on the Drive all leading to an end cul-de-sac where he'd have had to force his way past the side of a house to gain access to that storm drain.

Dozens of kids / parents etc out in the street with the weather - there's nothing about it makes sense.

There's a house at the end of that street blurred out on Google Maps ... I wonder why?

[seafoid]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

It shouldn't be on twitter. It shouldn't be on the  gaaboard.
It should have been resolved. Why hasn't it ?

[Smokin Joe]

Having had occasion to be on Northwood Drive over the last year I just cannot fathom how that child cycled down there naked without hundreds of sightings in the early part of a summer evening.

There must be close to 300 houses on the Drive all leading to an end cul-de-sac where he'd have had to force his way past the side of a house to gain access to that storm drain.

Dozens of kids / parents etc out in the street with the weather - there's nothing about it makes sense.

There's a house at the end of that street blurred out on Google Maps ... I wonder why?

So there is!

[smelmoth]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

[trueblue1234]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

Ok so we think the most likely reason for the PII is to 
"something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret". So what other than this informant/agent being involved somewhere in this process would be a likely scenario other than being involved in the death directly? I can't think of any but very open to listening to any you have?

[keep her low this half]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

Or to put it another way

"What are the police protecting that is more important than the murder of a child?"

I will await your suggestions

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Having had occasion to be on Northwood Drive over the last year I just cannot fathom how that child cycled down there naked without hundreds of sightings in the early part of a summer evening.

There must be close to 300 houses on the Drive all leading to an end cul-de-sac where he'd have had to force his way past the side of a house to gain access to that storm drain.

Dozens of kids / parents etc out in the street with the weather - there's nothing about it makes sense.

There's a house at the end of that street blurred out on Google Maps ... I wonder why?

Because the owner requested it? Anyone can request their house to get blurred out.

[WT4E]

Having had occasion to be on Northwood Drive over the last year I just cannot fathom how that child cycled down there naked without hundreds of sightings in the early part of a summer evening.

There must be close to 300 houses on the Drive all leading to an end cul-de-sac where he'd have had to force his way past the side of a house to gain access to that storm drain.

Dozens of kids / parents etc out in the street with the weather - there's nothing about it makes sense.

There's a house at the end of that street blurred out on Google Maps ... I wonder why?

Because the owner requested it? Anyone can request their house to get blurred out.

Yeah I know that but why I wonder?

[rrhf]

Whilst there are 100s of cases over the last 100 years. The Noah case could well be the straw that breaks the camels back in relation of policing practices of the wee state.

[imtommygunn]

Having had occasion to be on Northwood Drive over the last year I just cannot fathom how that child cycled down there naked without hundreds of sightings in the early part of a summer evening.

There must be close to 300 houses on the Drive all leading to an end cul-de-sac where he'd have had to force his way past the side of a house to gain access to that storm drain.

Dozens of kids / parents etc out in the street with the weather - there's nothing about it makes sense.

There's a house at the end of that street blurred out on Google Maps ... I wonder why?

Because the owner requested it? Anyone can request their house to get blurred out.

Yeah I know that but why I wonder?

there have been burglaries off the back of images on google (more earth than maps). Maybe some people are paranoid. Or maybe more to it haha. Who knows.

[general_lee]

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

So you'd sooner accuse people of being conspiracy theorists because they've no evidence to back up their claims but will happily accept the PSNI version of events despite them having also having zero evidence to back up theirs?

[smelmoth]

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

So you'd sooner accuse people of being conspiracy theorists because they've no evidence to back up their claims but will happily accept the PSNI version of events despite them having also having zero evidence to back up theirs?

I haven't accepted anyone's version.

I am not the one jumping to conclusions

[smelmoth]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

Ok so we think the most likely reason for the PII is to 
"something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret". So what other than this informant/agent being involved somewhere in this process would be a likely scenario other than being involved in the death directly? I can't think of any but very open to listening to any you have?

At a guess the documents/details with a document relate to the feelers the cops put out to see if any informant knew anything. There is no way that would be released to the family. There is your PII right there.

To be absolutely clear PSNI use informants. Especially in areas of high crime. Several groups do not like this. My understanding is that the PSNI have very little to go on in the Noah case. If you look at where the crime occurred it is clear that there will be informants in the surrounding area. If it's true that the case flummoxed the cops it's very, very likely that they will have shaken down every street source they had. That info cannot be released.

So when I hear there is a PII cert my instinct is that there is bound to be. If you want to elevate it above that show me some evidence? Something other than a conspiracy theory

[tiempo]

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

So you'd sooner accuse people of being conspiracy theorists because they've no evidence to back up their claims but will happily accept the PSNI version of events despite them having also having zero evidence to back up theirs?

I haven't accepted anyone's version.

I am not the one jumping to conclusions

My take, foul play and coverup

Evidence, murder and PII

There is a very clear conspiracy to coverup via the PII

Also not jumping to conclusions

[trueblue1234]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

Ok so we think the most likely reason for the PII is to 
"something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret". So what other than this informant/agent being involved somewhere in this process would be a likely scenario other than being involved in the death directly? I can't think of any but very open to listening to any you have?

At a guess the documents/details with a document relate to the feelers the cops put out to see if any informant knew anything. There is no way that would be released to the family. There is your PII right there.

To be absolutely clear PSNI use informants. Especially in areas of high crime. Several groups do not like this. My understanding is that the PSNI have very little to go on in the Noah case. If you look at where the crime occurred it is clear that there will be informants in the surrounding area. If it's true that the case flummoxed the cops it's very, very likely that they will have shaken down every street source they had. That info cannot be released.

So when I hear there is a PII cert my instinct is that there is bound to be. If you want to elevate it above that show me some evidence? Something other than a conspiracy theory

But that's the point. There is no evidence of your version either. Your version is as much a theory as any other. In fact it would be infinitely easier to redact certain documents/ or to use code names of informers on documents regarding interviews etc which they do, than to allow this whole media circus to gather pace to a stage where it is not going to disappear and has added to peoples feelings regarding cover ups. Provide me with evidence that your version is more likely and We'll talk. Leave out the condescending  conspiracy theory remarks though.