Northern nationalists versus ?

[sid waddell]

PUP haven't a voice ffs, they haven't the intellect nor the money to have a sustainable assault on working class politics! Can you imagine the likes of a Jo  Bunting being a leader?

Sophie Long is a very interesting voice and the sort of person Loyalism/Unionism needs much more of but she was effectively forced out of the PUP

[Rossfan]

+1

If you consider yourself Irish, then you have no choice but to vote for Irish Unity ... to do anything other than vote for unity, well you'd be a hypocrite devoid of any self esteem.

Exactly, it's unforgiveable.
The people using shallow reasons like "it would cost me an extra few quid" are the worst type too. Imagine rejecting the reunification of your country over a few notes.
Putting anything other than an X in the box for Unity as an Irish person would be traitor-like behaviour.

I trust you're referring to those Northern "nationalists" who aren't prepared to pay their way in a future All Ireland State?
Around £5k per person per annum.
Anither crowd who sold their souls for English gold.

No. More specifically the Southern "nationalists" who use that excuse, but it applies to 6 county people as well.
Not sure where you're pulling 5k from either.

Already explained it but anyway
£10,000,000,000 shortfall between public income and expenditure. 2,000,000 population (give or take easier to divide 2 into 10k).
People in the 26 ('ignorant Free Staters" "bastard state" etc etc) being asked to pay €2,200 each to fund that shortfall....No!!

[GiveItToTheShooters]

+1

If you consider yourself Irish, then you have no choice but to vote for Irish Unity ... to do anything other than vote for unity, well you'd be a hypocrite devoid of any self esteem.

Exactly, it's unforgiveable.
The people using shallow reasons like "it would cost me an extra few quid" are the worst type too. Imagine rejecting the reunification of your country over a few notes.
Putting anything other than an X in the box for Unity as an Irish person would be traitor-like behaviour.

I trust you're referring to those Northern "nationalists" who aren't prepared to pay their way in a future All Ireland State?
Around £5k per person per annum.
Anither crowd who sold their souls for English gold.

No. More specifically the Southern "nationalists" who use that excuse, but it applies to 6 county people as well.
Not sure where you're pulling 5k from either.

Already explained it but anyway
£10,000,000,000 shortfall between public income and expenditure. 2,000,000 population (give or take easier to divide 2 into 10k).
People in the 26 ('ignorant Free Staters" "bastard state" etc etc) being asked to pay €2,200 each to fund that shortfall....No!!

Can you provide some evidence to this claim that this would actually be the case?
If not, I'll file it under "More fabricated Rossfan nonsense that suits his own agenda".

[Milltown Row2]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

[tonto1888]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

[Milltown Row2]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

Unfortunately they won't make inroads, they ain't republican, but nationalists based

[Angelo]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

You're the one that's got caught talking out your arse as usual. You look at Belfast and the amount of working class protestants there, if they are not voting for the DUP then why are they consistently returning DUP candidates in their electoral wards? If working class Protestants are not voting for the DUP then tell me who they are voting for?

I find it utterly bizarre how working class protestants vote for the DUP but it's an absolute fact that they do - something you seem to be denying its the case.

[sid waddell]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

There is no reason why there should not be a left wing form of Unionism, or a left wing party for people from the PUL community - other than that Unionism is ethno-nationalism

Unionism is obsessed with the notion of Empire, of being a chosen people, and the whole culture surrounding these notions

The whole culture surrounding Unionism is that they are a superior but lost and threatened people, like white South Africans, white US evangelicals and hard right Israelis

Working class Unionists vote in the same way the white people in trailer parks who love Trump do

They might be poverty stricken and uneducated but in their own mind they will always be superior to blacks simply because they are white and they have been fooled into identifying themselves as being part of a traditional hegemony

Poor whites in the US are paranoid about losing the only thing which gives them any form of self-identity or self-respect - white supremacy

Poor Unionists are paranoid about losing the only things which give them any form of self-identity or self-respect - Protestant supremacy and the Union

[general_lee]

Is it beyond the realms of imagination that a section of the unionist population may look favourably on a united Ireland?

Good question. There are people who are "pragmatic" unionists. Ok not exactly traditionally unionist, but if they thought they might prosper better in a unified Irish state they'd vote for it.

As for the actual unionist community in the traditional sense, I'd say the numbers would be minuscule. Possibly confined to business people who would oppose it but accept the outcome of a democratic vote if it was in some way beneficial to them

[trailer]

If this thread has proven one thing it is that whatever about Unionism having a long way to travel, Nationalism might have an even longer road.
This thread is a name calling exercise. If you believe in unification then go out and make the case for it, to Southerners and Unionists. If you believe that a United Ireland benefits all the people of this Island then that should be all you need to say.

[general_lee]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

Would there be no scope for PBP to make headway in loyalist working class areas or would they be seen as too nationalist and/or republican

Definitely not, loyalist working class areas are shamelessly right-wing.

[general_lee]

If this thread has proven one thing it is that whatever about Unionism having a long way to travel, Nationalism might have an even longer road.
This thread is a name calling exercise. If you believe in unification then go out and make the case for it, to Southerners and Unionists. If you believe that a United Ireland benefits all the people of this Island then that should be all you need to say.

Probably the best post so far.

[sid waddell]

People say identity politics is largely a US creation but NI has been living identity politics for its whole existence, and long before

Class as an issue has no outlet and that means traditional left/right politics has no outlet

Working class Protestants and Catholics should have far more in common with each other than that which divides them

This sort of "politics" is an anti-politics, a total collective abdication of reality

And yes it is worse on the Unionist side, but the Nationalist side also perpetuates it

[Rossfan]

If this thread has proven one thing it is that whatever about Unionism having a long way to travel, Nationalism might have an even longer road.
This thread is a name calling exercise. If you believe in unification then go out and make the case for it, to Southerners and Unionists. If you believe that a United Ireland benefits all the people of this Island then that should be all you need to say.

Probably the best post so far.

Far too adult a suggestion for a lot here

Shooter there's also the 6 Cos share of the "UK" National debt c£37,000,000,000

[Milltown Row2]

Stop talking shite and stop digging a hole for yourself Angelo. Why don't you ask someone from these areas, try that first

You're the one that's got caught talking out your arse as usual. You look at Belfast and the amount of working class protestants there, if they are not voting for the DUP then why are they consistently returning DUP candidates in their electoral wards? If working class Protestants are not voting for the DUP then tell me who they are voting for?

I find it utterly bizarre how working class protestants vote for the DUP but it's an absolute fact that they do - something you seem to be denying its the case.

I've explained already why they vote DUP and not PUP, I find it bizarre why you can't read my posts !!!

DUP keep SF out, PUP have absolutely no one that would have the intellect or ability to keep two factions within working class loyalist together.