Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[markl121]

I still reckon that attendance figure is very under reported. Owenbeg couldn't have held many more.

[oakleaflad]

I still reckon that attendance figure is very under reported. Owenbeg couldn't have held many more.

There was a right number of seats left at the far side. I think Derry fans probably outnumbered Kildare at least 2 to 1 from what I seen though. If there was 2700 at it I'd say close to 2000 were Derry fans.

[braveheart]

I still reckon that attendance figure is very under reported. Owenbeg couldn't have held many more.

What?

[markl121]

Well the supposed capacity of the place is 7k and it was definitely more than half full. The seats at the far end round section 108 were more empty but the rest of the stand was full and a decent crowd in the terrace. Anyway it's probably the most support we have had all year.

[screenexile]

There is no way possible that Kildare had more supporters than Derry did on Saturday . . . there's enough to be getting annoyed about within the County and the team without having to make shit up!!

[oakleaflad]

There is no way possible that Kildare had more supporters than Derry did on Saturday . . . there's enough to be getting annoyed about within the County and the team without having to make shit up!!

Agree completely.

On a more positive note the U20's had a good comeback win and are now set for an Ulster final. Impressive given the number of their players that are still U20 next year.

[Wildweasel74]

McErlain has the job for at least a couple of years! We come out of division 4 nxt yr but playing that standard of fball we be way of the pace to make any impact in the ulster championship 2019 meaning we likely go 7years without a win except over down in 2015 all we have to show for it! Hard to believe many had us favourites to beat donegal bck in 2014; 2yrs after they had won the all-ireland! A def change is needed in the bckroom team! They are all simply too young and  inexperienced at this level with many never never managing a senior club team

[ON THE HILL]

mackers has no senior experience either so that argument is a no go...

[Real Talk]

Anyone care to explain why Damian Heavron has been excluded from the panel, very poor from of Mc Erlaine on this one. What has Heavron done previously with Barton last year to warrant such treatment. I am surprised there hasn't been more made of this considering the guy is one of our best players, especially as we have a seriously young panel who need all the help they can get.

On the surface it's a bizarre omission but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. We'll have to see how Derry progress through the season and I'd say Damien has a gameplan in mind for the players he's picked. As a Rossa man I've mixed feelings but it should make us stronger having Danny and Emmett available all year and having a point to prove.

He would need to have a better gameplan than he had for the minor final. Heavron will be a huge loss in my opinion, great football brain and vision.  Both Emmett and Ryan would be very useful options in Division 3 football in January/February and would add a physical presence. Return of some more experienced players balances things a wee bit but getting up from Division 3 is by no means an easy task with the panel available.

What a county we live in. Derry had a terrible record at minor until Damian came in.He has won 2 Ulster titles and got to an All Ireland minor final,something which looked so out of reach until his appointment and yet you can only see the negative. Granted we got hammered,but don't slate the man before the season starts.

Read the post. I did not slate the man, I questioned the game plan for the minor final - the main reason the game was over as a contest so early.  How do you think we will do in Division 3 with the players available?

Your analysis of the Minor final was correct.  We are going to go into Div 3 with some very inexperienced players.  Westmeath had a good league performance in Div 4 last year and Armagh were unfortunate not to get promoted in 2017.  I don't think we will beat Armagh, Fermanagh or Sligo and Longford have always been a 'bogey' team .... so no promotion for us in 2018.   That said the challenge for us is to build an effective game plan with a competent 'kick-out' strategy.  We will also need to work hard for each other all of the time.  Game-day management is very important and that will include a  'counter-attacking'  plan that gets scores and that best utilises the quality, pace and skill that we have available to us.  We have a lot of players of similar standard and it is vital we create a good team spirit in order to develop a strong 'desire to win' mentality.  Its unlikely that we will make an impact in the Ulster Championship but a good run in the Qualifiers will help us to continue to build a strong foundation for 2019.

That was my analysis of the Derry situation before the League began !!!!!

The manager is not up to this job

The question remains is the County Board up to grasping the nettle ?

[Estimator]

Just had a look at the relative success of school, club, minor and U21, success over the last few years, with relation to Senior level.  It looks like there haven't been too many managers up to the job of managing the senior footballers.
(The mind wanders when you're off for a day or two)

Schools (MacRory)
St. Columbs Derry, won back to back titles in '65 and '66, winning the Hogan in '65.  I think that those were the first college titles to head to Derry.
St. Patrick's Maghera joined the party, getting to the final in '76 (losing their first).  This was the start of a run of 11 consecutive finals – winning 6 and losing 5.  They lost a couple of Hogan finals along the way.
'88 – '90 was the Maghera/Colman's years with Colman's winning in 88, and Maghera gaining their first win over Colman's in a MacRory final in '89 then backing that up again in '90.  Two Hogan Cup were won as well.
Maghera made the all the finals between '93 and '96 – winning 3 and losing 1. They reached the Hogan Cup in all three of those victories losing 2 and winning one.
There was a few quiet years with '98 being their only final (losing) until 2003, where the MacRory and Hogan Cup returned to Maghera.
Things went quiet again until 2012, when they reached the final again. Victories followed in '13, '14 and '16 with the Hogan Title also achieved during that time.
Magherafelt have appeared in the last two MacRory finals winning one and losing one.
In total Derry schools have won 18 MacRory titles
Rank: 2/9

County Minors
Derry won their first Ulster Minor title in 1965.  It was the first time they got to a final, and they went on to win the All- Ireland Minor title.  They were back in the Ulster Minor Final in '66 and '68 losing both.  Another title followed in 1970, with the only other appearance during the '70s in an Ulster Minor Final was a losing one in '74.
The 80's were more productive, winning all 5 appearances in the Ulster Final and picking up 2 All-Ireland minor titles, and losing two Ulster finals along the way.
During the 90's we won two and lost 2 Ulster Minor titles, and made it to an AI Final.   
During the 00's we won two and lost one, and made one AI appearance.
During the 10's we won two and lost one, and made one AI appearance.
In total the county have 14 Ulster Minor titles to their name.
Rank: 2/9

Club Minors
The Ulster Minor Club competition has been running since 1982, Derry clubs didn't win one until Dungiven started the process in 1990. 
During the 90's, 8 titles arrived in the county:
Dungiven (1990)
Bellaghy (1991 & 1994)
Loup (1993 & 1995)
Ballinderry (1996 & 1997)
Slaughtneil (1998)
This winning run slowed down in the 2000's, with Ballinderry winning twice (2001 & 2008) with Kilrea grabbing the only other victory in 2007.
Since 2010 we have had three losing finalists (Magherafelt 2010, Kilrea 2016 and Ballinascreen 2017) alongside the Glen 4-in-a-row team.
In total the clubs in the county have 15 titles , which is the most for any county in Ulster
Rank: 1/9

County U21's
Derry won their first title in 1967, I'd say this was based around the minor winners from '65. They retained it in '68  (as previous) and won the All-Ireland as well (beating Offaly in the final).
They won one and lost one Ulster final in the 70's
During the 80's there was 2 Ulster final victories and All-Ireland final appearances, and one defeat in an Ulster Final.
In the 90's there was 2 victories in Ulster with one All-Ireland title in 1997 and 3 Ulster final defeats. 
And since 2000 there have 0 Ulster titles with 4 final defeats.
As an aside, the Offaly side that Derry beat in the All-Ireland U21 Final in '68, went on and won a couple of All-Ireland titles in '70 and '72. The Meath side that Derry beat (by 10pts?) in the 1997 final went on and won an All-Ireland title in '99.  With a few having senior AI medals from '96.
In total the county have 7 Ulster Under 21 titles to their name.
Rank: 4/9

Club Senior
The Ulster Club Senior Championship started in '68 with Bellaghy being the inaugural winners.
Bellaghy and Ballerin won further titles in the 70's with Bellaghy winning the AI and Ballerin made the final.
The 80's were barren in comparison with only one Ulster title going to Ballinderry.
The 90's seen Lavey win their two Ulster titles and one AI.  Bellaghy won another title, but failed in the AI final.  They also reached another couple of Ulster deciders only to meet Crossmaglen on the start of their run. And Dungiven won their solitary Club title in Ulster.
In the early 2000's Bellaghy, Ballinderry and Loup achieved Ulster victories, with Ballinderry going one better to win the AI.  This was all before Cross had recharged and started winning again. Bellaghy, Ballinderry x 2 and Loup all reached the Ulster final only to be beaten.
Since 2010, only 3 sides have won the Ulster title. With Cross' dominance in the competition being broken by Ballinderry (1) and Slaughtneil (3)
In total Derry clubs have won 15 Ulster Titles:
Rank: 1 (Joint)/9

County Senior
It appears that the first Ulster Championship was won by Monaghan in 1888, and since then Derry have won 7 (seven) titles.  Derry are second last in the Ulster Title rankings, with Fermanagh behind them. 
1921 was their first final appearance. And they didn't appear again until '55 and subsequently in '57. '58 was their first title, they got to the AI Final that year.
There was nothing for the seniors to celebrate in the 60's, not even a final appearance.
The 70's were more successful winning three titles and appearing in another two.
We went quiet again in the 80's with two final appearances and a 50% success rate.
We had an identical success rate in the 90's, with 2 victories and 2 defeats in Ulster finals.  However, the AI Title was achieved in '93.
'98 was the last Ulster final victory with further defeats coming in 2000 and 2011.
Rank: 8/9

There has been plenty of success over the years for club and county up to and including U21. As well as that, the senior club scene has proved fruitful when it comes to victories.  This hasn't materialised into relative success at senior level.  Maybe it never will.  I read comments from Adrian McGuckin (Snr) regarding the side that won the U21 All-Ireland in 1968.  He reckons that there was an All-Ireland senior title in that side, and the fact that the team they beat went on to win a couple made it even worse.

For as long as I can remember there has always been a general apathy towards the county side.  The crowds for the run to the '92 National League final were not huge.  '93 was an anomaly where support is concerned, getting tickets was a little more difficult.  After that point, things started to dwindle once again.  The semi-finals of '98, '01 and '04 certainly weren't full houses.  From speaking to a number of people at the match on Saturday, everyone one of them stated that they wouldn't have attended (myself included) if the game had've been fixed for Celtic Park.  This apathy gets to the players, they know where they are at regarding success at senior county level, and some take the decision that its not for them.  Its an easier life at the club.

Many managers that have won titles with schools/clubs have tried and failed to win titles with Derry.  Look at the list of managers since Brian Mullins – Coleman, McGuckin, Moran, Crozier, Cassidy, Brennan, Barton...

And thats where we are at....

[theticklemister]

Take more days off work day buck estimator. I really enjoyed reading that. Good work.

[lenny]

Anyone care to explain why Damian Heavron has been excluded from the panel, very poor from of Mc Erlaine on this one. What has Heavron done previously with Barton last year to warrant such treatment. I am surprised there hasn't been more made of this considering the guy is one of our best players, especially as we have a seriously young panel who need all the help they can get.

On the surface it's a bizarre omission but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. We'll have to see how Derry progress through the season and I'd say Damien has a gameplan in mind for the players he's picked. As a Rossa man I've mixed feelings but it should make us stronger having Danny and Emmett available all year and having a point to prove.

He would need to have a better gameplan than he had for the minor final. Heavron will be a huge loss in my opinion, great football brain and vision.  Both Emmett and Ryan would be very useful options in Division 3 football in January/February and would add a physical presence. Return of some more experienced players balances things a wee bit but getting up from Division 3 is by no means an easy task with the panel available.

What a county we live in. Derry had a terrible record at minor until Damian came in.He has won 2 Ulster titles and got to an All Ireland minor final,something which looked so out of reach until his appointment and yet you can only see the negative. Granted we got hammered,but don't slate the man before the season starts.

Read the post. I did not slate the man, I questioned the game plan for the minor final - the main reason the game was over as a contest so early.  How do you think we will do in Division 3 with the players available?

Your analysis of the Minor final was correct.  We are going to go into Div 3 with some very inexperienced players.  Westmeath had a good league performance in Div 4 last year and Armagh were unfortunate not to get promoted in 2017.  I don't think we will beat Armagh, Fermanagh or Sligo and Longford have always been a 'bogey' team .... so no promotion for us in 2018.   That said the challenge for us is to build an effective game plan with a competent 'kick-out' strategy.  We will also need to work hard for each other all of the time.  Game-day management is very important and that will include a  'counter-attacking'  plan that gets scores and that best utilises the quality, pace and skill that we have available to us.  We have a lot of players of similar standard and it is vital we create a good team spirit in order to develop a strong 'desire to win' mentality.  Its unlikely that we will make an impact in the Ulster Championship but a good run in the Qualifiers will help us to continue to build a strong foundation for 2019.

That was my analysis of the Derry situation before the League began !!!!!

The manager is not up to this job

The question remains is the County Board up to grasping the nettle ?

Would we be better doing a swap next year? Damien to go back to the u20s to work with a good team and Micky Donnelly who has much more experience to take over the senior job. It could work well for all concerned.

[toby47]

Take more days off work day buck estimator. I really enjoyed reading that. Good work.

+1 enjoyed that myself

[Uncle Phil]

+2 good post

[tbrick18]

Good post Estimator. Would be good to see equivalent stats for other provinces to give context.

Would be interesting to see if other counties with relatively strong club, underage and school success have as much difficulty in translating that onto the senior county level.

Slightly off topic, we are where we deserve to be this year in terms of senior football team.
Tactically inept management in place as a result of an inept county board.
Not all the best players are involved, eg Danny Heavron.
Slaughtneil success hampered us, but realistically it shows the lack of strength in depth of the squad as probably only 3-4 starting players are from  slaughtneil.
Apathy from supporters has to be expected given the quality being offered up in terms of tactics and performance (we are not the only county like this though).

In other words, we have very little going for us apart from recent minor success and current u20s. It remains to be seen if mcerlain can translate that to the senior stage. It might be too much for anyone to do, but more difficult for an inexperienced....and dare I say it, inexpensive manager.

Time will tell, but currently it's sh1t being a Derry fan.