All this league positivity talk and yet no thread for the final

[Lar Naparka]

As  I see it, the jackeens vs the culchies is all right for a bit of pub talk and some waffle on internet forums (fora?) but Dublin's dominance on the field  right now isn't my biggest concern. I think Jim Gavin is a good manager and a very nice chap and he's only making the best of what he has at his disposal, as any manager worth his salt would do.
But there are socio-economic forces at work that will propel Dublin further and farther away from the chasing pack and that can't be good for Dublin and for the whole of culchie land.
Rural communities along the western seaboard are being decimated by the drift of people from the land to the towns and cities along the eastern coast. That's a fact of life and it's tearing the heart out of towns and villages in Mayo, Galway and every other with its arse to the Atlantic. Anyone who takes a walk around Ballinrobe or Kiltimagh or other small towns in Mayo on any night will find pubs shut down and shops that were shuttered a few years ago.
The arrival of multinational supermarkets on the scene has given the kibosh to small shops that served as social centres, just as blacksmiths' forges did in previous generations. THe GAA is in serious trouble, at least in the short to medium term as the young , fit and ambitious are packing up in greater numbers than ever before.
You have assloads of clubs in Dublin that have no room for new members while you have the likes of Parke-Keelouges- Crimlin trying to survive in Mayo. (Where did the three names come from? Go figure....)
Dublin can only get bigger and better and further ahead of the rest, there is no other logical alternative. But the percentage of the population of those who engage actively in GAA affairs is decreasing. I mentioned Erin's Isle before- a middling-sized club with a catchment  area with the same population as County Cavan. One club to represent over 72,000 people!  And that's only one example.
Not good for the future of the GAA.
Believe me, there may be is trouble ahead!

The Parish of Parke (also half of Turlough), The Parish of Keelogues (also half of Turlough and Ballyvary) and Crimlin (half parish of Parke). Name was Changed for just Parke which it was called up to lately. After a big row! The name came about to keep a lot of people happy and to stop players from Keelogues being Robbed by neighbouring Clubs!

The reality is that it is still known as Parke to everybody.

I know the craic alright.
I was addressing that at those who can see nothing wrong with Dublin's stranglehold on the game for now and forever.  The whole goddamn lot may play as Parke but look at the area that once had three clubs and now has only one. Amalgamations left right and centre to try and keep the game alive.
As John Power says, the number of clubs in Leinster is dropping as well so what hope is there for Connacht and the other counties isolated counties? Population figures give a false impression of what the reality is.
Figures are skewed by the number of non-nationals coming to live in those counties. The actual population in the counties I have in mind may have increased somewhat, (apart from Mayo) but the fact is they are not GAA-oriented. Anyone know when the last rural club in rural counties was founded? Very few in cities and large towns but none I have heard of in country areas.
The probability is that things are going to get worse not better.

The Dubs have a long term success rate of around 19% of all Irelands.
They won a higher percentage pre 1921
This team is dependent on 6 or 7 key players who won't be around forever.

On the economic front things are probably going to change soon because the system
doesn't work for the majority of people.

Far from me bit it to fight with you but the facts don't support your argument.
The idea that when Berno and Clucko and Dermo and Flynner and the likes retire, the Dubs will drop back into the pack once more is wishful thinking at best  and a sign that whoever belives that could do with a spell in a home for the bewildered.
What about McCaffrey, McCarthy, Fenton, Kilkenny, Costello, Small, Rock and all who are coming through in a never ending stream? Even if you could discount the fact that Dublin won't be going away any time soon, there's the little matter of finance involved. Nowadays, it takes more to prepare a team to win an All Ireland than it took to put Neil Armstrong on the moon. Mayo and Kerry and Tyrone or Donegal etc. won't be able to keep up the challenge year after year. They're bankrupting themselves as it is.
Statistics? Like Mark Twain said, there's lies, damn lies and statistics.
What happened fadó, fadó has no bearing on the present or future because of the changed social and economic conditions that prevail now.  Besides, Dublin didn't have their Blue Wave initiative in operation until 2011.

I don't agree with this. Flynn, Cluxton, Connolly and Brogan will be considered amongst the best if not the best players to have played their position. In the same way Tyrone have still produced very good footballers they haven't replaced the likes of O'Neill, Canavan, McGuigan, Dooher etc. with players of similar ability.

Kerry are producing more young players likely to be regarded as great players. Dublin have and will continue to produce very good to great players but they won't always have the truly great players they've have now. If Dublin had won the last three minor All Irelands it would be used as further evidence of Dublin's certain future dominance yet it seems it's not evidence of Kerry's future dominance. These young players will be (are) joining a panel with brilliant players like Moran, O'Donoghue, Geaney etc. so Kerry will match Dublin in the near future.

Mayo would have beaten this Dublin team already if they had better forwards. Kerry will shortly have enough of them to do it. Monaghan are a county the rest of the country would do well to take heed of. With a small population and limited resources they have established themselves as a top 6 team for a number of years. Why can't bigger, better resourced counties do better?

In saying that, I do appreciate the broader economic issues and population trends but I'm not sure what the GAA can do about that or how we can change  our IC competitions to reflect those realities.

As you know, I seldom disagree with you.
I accept that there's a lot of merit in what you say but by no means everything. I have said many times that I think Jim Gavin is a decent sort and a very good manager and he is only doiing what any good manager would do. He and Dublin can't be blamed for issues outside their control. But there's nothinh whatever to suggest that Dublin are only dominant because they have a number of talented players- buckos that can't be replaced. The eviodence suggests otherwise. I gave a list of younger players who are coming through at present. Can you name a single one of them that wouldn't walk on to any other team in the country. Professionalism and Science have come together to insure that Dublin wille to the fore for the foreseeable future. Monaghan are indeed a good side but they won't be good enough to overtake Dublin because the don't have the money or the population needed to do so. LIke the other counties you mention they might beat Dublin once in a while as there is only so much a professional back up and a huge population can help. On the field it's 15 against 15 so Dublin cannot  be sure of winning the AI year after year but they certainly are set to win most of them,
Population size determines the amount of money a sponsor is prepared to put up. It also means that players are very likely to live work/study and train without having to travel long distances going from one to another. I'd say no Dublin player has to travel more that ten miles to do just that. For Mayo lads, it a case of travelling around 1,000 km to get down home for training 3 times a week.It often means a load of them piling into a shared car, leaving Dublin around 3 or 4 pm and getting back 12 hours late. Remember the time PIllar Caffrey had early morning sessions for his squad?
What other county could do that!
Anyway, regardless of what Dublin may or may not do, the GAA is facing a crisis in rural Ireland. Rural depopulation is a big, big problem and it is going to get worse. That will impinge on the game in Dublin also. They need worthwhile competition to prosper. The top two teams in the land going toe to toe in the second most important competition in the land and very few will be bothered about the result. Unless the GAA as a whole takes note of what is happening, it's a case of going about re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Basically, we are all fecked.

[mayoaremagic]

Mayo raise huge cash abroad as well and Donegal have done so too. There have always been differences in playing and financial resources and while Dublin are an exception in financial and playing numbers, Kerry are not. If Kerry can produce players that can compete with Dublin and win All Irelands why can't others?

But the thing is they can't! Not at the moment!

Have Kerry not won the last 3 minor All Irelands? Sure Dublin haven't even made one since 2012. Kerry will be as strong if not stronger than Dublin in the next few years.

Dublin have won 7 of the last 9 under 21 Leinster titles!
Dublin have won 4 of the last 8 Leinster Minor titles!
Dublin have won 9 of the last 12 Leinster Club titles!
Dublin have won 11 of the last 12 Leinster Senior titles!
Dublin have won 2 of the last 4 Senior Club AIs!
Dublin have won a Minor AI in 2012.
Dublin won under 21 AI in 2010, 2012, 2014
Dublin senior team has won 4 of the last 6 AIs!
Dublin have won the last 4 National Leagues!

This is a Tsunami of titles! Look how well Dublin fared 10 years plus and you will see the Change!

It's frightening.

Kerry are emerging fast and hoovering up underage titles

Won last 3 minor All Irelands with practically 3 different group of players
4 Hogans Cups-St Brendans x2, Dingle x2
2 Junior All Irelands
Dr Crokes winning club All Ireland
dominant at intermediate and junior club level.
Odds on favourites to win u21 and minor titles this year

[Zulu]

Lar, I don't disagree on the larger point regarding rural depopulation but the players you mentioned, like John Small and Dean Rock are good players rather than great players. Connolly, Cluxton, Flynn and Brogan will be in the conversation when they are picking the next centenary team. Dublin will be one of the top 3 or 4 teams for the foreseeable future but the idea that they'll be unbeatable is patently not true and Kerry are now dominating at nearly every level bar senior county so I see no reason why that won't transfer to senior in due course.

Kerry have embraced the challenge Dublin are posing, it's about time others did so too.

[Jinxy]

I think 13 different clubs are represented in Dublin's starting line-up.
That's before you get to Clontarf, Ballyboden, Whitehall etc. in the subs.

[Rossfan]

GAA said to be expecting around 40k tomorrow.
Wasn't it nearly a full house last year.
It seems people even from Dublin and Kerry are getting bored of it.
I won't even bother watching it myself.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

GAA said to be expecting around 40k tomorrow.
Wasn't it nearly a full house last year.
It seems people even from Dublin and Kerry are getting bored of it.
I won't even bother watching it myself.

1916 centenary commemoration rubbish was on last year. That being said there will be a terrible attendance from Kildare and presumably Galway for the D2 final, people are sick of Croke park double headers. Cavan and Tyrone would have brought bigger support last year.

[Zulu]

40K would be a great crowd. Wasn't there a 1916 celebration show on last year as well?

On the finals themselves, Westmeath way too strong for Wexford who are playing a pretty terrible brand of football. They seem to have no outlet ahead to kick the ball into.

[Zulu]

Kieran Martin is a great player to have in your full forward line. Great to make himself available but brilliant then to go at his marker which creates opportunities for himself and others to score. Westmeath look good, they have a few very good players.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Heslin, Sharry and Martin would make almost any team in the country.

[Fuzzman]

Why are Louth playing in Tyrone jerseys?
I thought they wore red shirts.

[seafoid]

Lar, I don't disagree on the larger point regarding rural depopulation but the players you mentioned, like John Small and Dean Rock are good players rather than great players. Connolly, Cluxton, Flynn and Brogan will be in the conversation when they are picking the next centenary team. Dublin will be one of the top 3 or 4 teams for the foreseeable future but the idea that they'll be unbeatable is patently not true and Kerry are now dominating at nearly every level bar senior county so I see no reason why that won't transfer to senior in due course.

Kerry have embraced the challenge Dublin are posing, it's about time others did so too.

I don't buy the 1000 year Dub reich theory. In the last 5 championships the Dubs won the same number of finals that Mayo lost. Mayo should have won at least one.

[Zulu]

Poor stuff so far in the division 3 final.

[Crete Boom]

Well moving on from the Mayo are the shite be rural depopulation argument, on the actual game tomorrow I like the new look Kerry half back line. Much more speed and atheletesicm than in the past few years. If they​ can get a good performance out of Mike Geaney and Lyne in the half forwards maybe they found sneak it by a point of two??

[Crete Boom]

Lar, I don't disagree on the larger point regarding rural depopulation but the players you mentioned, like John Small and Dean Rock are good players rather than great players. Connolly, Cluxton, Flynn and Brogan will be in the conversation when they are picking the next centenary team. Dublin will be one of the top 3 or 4 teams for the foreseeable future but the idea that they'll be unbeatable is patently not true and Kerry are now dominating at nearly every level bar senior county so I see no reason why that won't transfer to senior in due course.

Kerry have embraced the challenge Dublin are posing, it's about time others did so too.

Pretty harsh on Mayo & Donegal, Zulu with your constant reference to Kerry being then only county to embrace the challenge of Dublin. Mayo and Donegal have beaten this Dublin team in the championship since 2011 whereas Kerry haven't!! Also Mayo at U21 and Donegal at minor have beaten Dublin in All Ireland semi finals in the not too distant past. Kerry are showing the greatest potential with their minors but they still haven't challenged the Dubs yet but maybe that all changes tomorrow!!

[Zulu]

Sorry Crete Boom, you're right and that wasn't really what I was trying to say. Mayo, Donegal and a few others have taken up the challenge but must continue to do so and not focus on Dublin. Croke Park will always be based in Dublin, they'll always have the biggest population and greatest potential for generating money however, they won't always develop once in a generation players so big counties like Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Kildare, Meath etc. can expect to challenge and win if they continue to do things correctly. Kerry are currently proof of that as they are now developing more of the best young players in Ireland.