Act of blasphemy in Galway today.

[Take Your Points]

I follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which goes all the way back to the Apostles, not wishy washy heretics as epitomised by Flannery.

Those who think Christianity is simply compassion and love are fatally mistaken.Jesus reserved compassion only for sinners who repented or in the hope that people would be turned to repentance.

The Catholic church in Ireland can be traced to the apostles but over 2000 years those who have taken control of the church and its direction have lost their way:

1. A simple review of the catechism of the church shows how it has taken a simple message of love of others above self and turned it into detailed rules that 95% of Catholics have no idea about and many of them have no regard for these rules.  It currently runs to 922 pages delving into every aspect of the lives of Catholics.
http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/catechism/files/assets/basic-html/page-1.html

2. Jesus made it clear he was the servant but it is clear that in the current Catholic church the clerical hierarchy are the masters of the people who make up the Church.  This runs from the development of the catechism through the garb and finery on display in Church to the development and use of Canon law.

In 2017, the number of Catholics in Ireland who are now in awe of the clerical hierarchy is at an all time low and it is now left with those in their autumn years who still regularly attend Mass beyond funerals, christenings, weddings, etc.

Unfortunately, the simple message of Jesus is being eroded in modern Ireland, as people have turned away from an overbearing Church that by any measure is in serious decline, there is no one to clearly teach the message.

Until recently, in my previous profession I would have been in favour of religion being taught in schools but a simple sentence from Baroness May Blood on Talkback over Christmas has caused me to reconsider. (I paraphrase as I cannot recite it word for word) May Blood was asked about her favour of Integrated education in N.Ireland and the preference for people to have faith handed on in schools.  She replied that after religion being taught in Catholic and Protestant faith schools for many decades in this country the numbers attending church services appears to be in terminal decline and as a measure of success of such teaching in schools it show it has failed.  Therefore, schools should not be based on their teaching of religion to pass on faith. I still believe that schools can have a Christian ethos basing their work on Gospel values but an honest review of teaching religion in schools will show that it is has made little or no impact on behalf of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Very few reviews of such show this failure because they are not carried out in the same manner that education is inspected and evaluated in this country.

BTW the behaviour of Fr Flannery is no better than the Church as a whole and is merely vanity on his behalf and as a form of protest by those attending his services. 

[magpie seanie]

Far more eloquently put that my attempt TYP. I agree entirely.

[T Fearon]

Typ totally incorrect analysis.Jesus wasn't an early hippy spreading unconditional love.His mission was to save sinners from damnation.If saving sinners wasn't the point,what was?

Church attendance dwindles because most people have convinced themselves that God doesn't exist and religion is poppycock.

That's fine,but what happens if God does exist and the Church teaching is correct?

[seafoid]

Typ totally incorrect analysis.Jesus wasn't an early hippy spreading unconditional love.His mission was to save sinners from damnation.If saving sinners wasn't the point,what was?

Church attendance dwindles because most people have convinced themselves that God doesn't exist and religion is poppycock.

That's fine,but what happens if God does exist and the Church teaching is correct?

people can hang around the back of heaven with the Hindus and the Protestants

[Treasurer]

BTW the behaviour of Fr Flannery is no better than the Church as a whole and is merely vanity on his behalf and as a form of protest by those attending his services.

I think his claim of simply wanting to celebrate his 70th birthday in way that reflects who he is and what his life has been about to date, is a genuine claim. 

Agreed on the rest of it

[T Fearon]

It is worse than vanity it is leading the misguided into heresy.

[Take Your Points]

Typ totally incorrect analysis.Jesus wasn't an early hippy spreading unconditional love.His mission was to save sinners from damnation.If saving sinners wasn't the point,what was?

Church attendance dwindles because most people have convinced themselves that God doesn't exist and religion is poppycock.

That's fine,but what happens if God does exist and the Church teaching is correct?

Tony, you are like the modern church and its 922 pages of catechism - focused on sin and wrongdoing and punishment of the sinner.  The teaching of Jesus focused on praise and encouragement which nowadays we know is the best way to teach and to develop people and not the fear and punishment preferred by the Church.  If you want sinners to repent, you will do better by praise and encouragement.  The Church's methods of dealing with us sinners are clearly no longer working.

If so many have decided that God doesn't exist what does this say for the passing on of the faith in Catholic schools and the work of the clergy in ensuring that the faith is growing?  It is failure all around.  In many of our Catholic primary schools children are prepared for confession and communion by dedicated teachers and every child will receive these sacraments.  However, less than a third of the children attend Mass during this time and even fewer after the sacraments.  At the same time we have Archbishop Martin telling his superiors in Rome that the faith is growing in Ireland.  He and his fellow bishops are living in La La Land deliberately oblivious of the Church disintegrating beneath them as long as they flounce around in their robes and garb and live in their bishop palaces around the country. The clergy and hierarchy are the modern pharisees.

[J70]

Typ totally incorrect analysis.Jesus wasn't an early hippy spreading unconditional love.His mission was to save sinners from damnation.If saving sinners wasn't the point,what was?

Church attendance dwindles because most people have convinced themselves that God doesn't exist and religion is poppycock.

That's fine,but what happens if God does exist and the Church teaching is correct?

Is belief in a god a choice or a judgement call?

[T Fearon]

People reject God nowadays due to fear,and inability to make the sacrifices real faith demands.

In terms of compassion the Church today is largely non judgemental and in my opinion too soft (you rarely if ever hear of Hell now). What about the great work done by Church affiliated organisations such as Trocaire,St Vincent De Paul, Scouts etc.

I see nothing wrong with advocating atonement and penance for sins and emphasising the need for repentance.

Belief in God is necessary and non optional for salvation.Scripture makes this very clear.

[J70]

People reject God nowadays due to fear,and inability to make the sacrifices real faith demands.

Fear of what?

Surely if fear is a factor, Pascal's Wager would dictate that most would be cowed into believing, just to be on the safe side (assuming such a choice could be honestly made)?

But it doesn't make any logical sense for someone to be penalized and eternally damned to hell or wherever by a god just because he or she came to the honest conclusion that the existence of said god was all a load of bollocks. That's the kind of narcissism and megalomania that Trump suffers from!

[Rufus T Firefly]

Until recently, in my previous profession I would have been in favour of religion being taught in schools but a simple sentence from Baroness May Blood on Talkback over Christmas has caused me to reconsider. (I paraphrase as I cannot recite it word for word) May Blood was asked about her favour of Integrated education in N.Ireland and the preference for people to have faith handed on in schools.  She replied that after religion being taught in Catholic and Protestant faith schools for many decades in this country the numbers attending church services appears to be in terminal decline and as a measure of success of such teaching in schools it show it has failed.  Therefore, schools should not be based on their teaching of religion to pass on faith.

Or alternatively you could argue that but for the teaching of religion in school, the decline that we see might be even greater, and thus it is having a positive, if limited impact on religious participation.

In 2017, the number of Catholics in Ireland who are now in awe of the clerical hierarchy is at an all time low and it is now left with those in their autumn years who still regularly attend Mass beyond funerals, christenings, weddings, etc.

The inference being that all regular Mass goers are in awe of the Clerical Hierarchy? Disappointed with that sort of argument from yourself TYP.

I absolutely accept that there has, and continues to be, a sharp decline in Mass attendances, but as someone who regularly attends Mass I would take issue with a further inference that it is only those in their 'autumn years' who are attending. I see all seasons well represented.

[longballin]

I follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which goes all the way back to the Apostles, not wishy washy heretics as epitomised by Flannery.

Those who think Christianity is simply compassion and love are fatally mistaken.Jesus reserved compassion only for sinners who repented or in the hope that people would be turned to repentance.

while on the Deaths thread wringing your hands when a local person dies and making all sorts of sick jokes when it is a celebrity... St Anthony of Armagh patron saint of bullsh*t and hypocrites.

[No wides]

People reject God nowadays due to fear,and inability to make the sacrifices real faith demands.

In terms of compassion the Church today is largely non judgemental and in my opinion too soft (you rarely if ever hear of Hell now). What about the great work done by Church affiliated organisations such as Trocaire,St Vincent De Paul, Scouts etc.

I see nothing wrong with advocating atonement and penance for sins and emphasising the need for repentance.

Belief in God is necessary and non optional for salvation.Scripture makes this very clear.

Maybe they realise it's a pile of shite?

Is this the scripture written by folk who never met Jesus?

[magpie seanie]

People reject God nowadays due to fear,and inability to make the sacrifices real faith demands.

In terms of compassion the Church today is largely non judgemental and in my opinion too soft (you rarely if ever hear of Hell now). What about the great work done by Church affiliated organisations such as Trocaire,St Vincent De Paul, Scouts etc.

I see nothing wrong with advocating atonement and penance for sins and emphasising the need for repentance.

Belief in God is necessary and non optional for salvation.Scripture makes this very clear.

Some people a rejecting God but I believe most are rejecting the church but not God. The Church has become obsolete to them and a complete perversion of the truth of the message of Jesus Christ. It's not about rules and regulations or at least it shouldn't be. They are man made and artificial. The truth has been lost along the way and if you cannot see that I'm sorry for you. Wake up and smell the coffee. Enjoy your life to the fullest, do good things - don't waste time tut tutting about others and trying to live their lives for them. Live your own life.

Tony I worry that your so judgemental. Why do you want mentions of hell? Why do you want to threaten people? The God I believe in and was brought up to know is a God of compassion and love and that's what I'll pass on to my kids. They can make up their own minds then, just as I was encouraged to do.

[Take Your Points]

Or alternatively you could argue that but for the teaching of religion in school, the decline that we see might be even greater, and thus it is having a positive, if limited impact on religious participation.

Certainly the primary school teachers are doing their best in a situation where a majority of the parents see sacraments as ceremonial rather than key development in the establishment of the faith in their children.  In this situation they are providing the Church with a major line of defence in the battle to remain relevant to the community.  However, by handing the role to the primary school teachers and in reality a very few of the teachers in any school, i.e. perhaps between 2 and 4 in the majority of schools in this country, the Church is giving the parents an opt out.  So, while primary school religion and preparation for sacraments is fighting a battle for the Church, it is also creating the circumstances that are leading to separating parents from the Church.  A Church community should be striving to bring its community together in developing the faith in its children.  The In Memory of Me Masses during the preparation for First Communion can be quoted as an example of community involvement but it is a separate event from the work of the teacher in the classroom who really does the work and often with only one or two visits from the local clergy.

The situation of religion teaching in secondary schools is just another matter on its own.  Too many schools have opted out of really teaching and challenges of handing on the faith by delivering GCSE RE for Catholics.  It may well provide more and better grades for schools but it is no substitute for work that needs to be done with those who are in their early teenage years who have experiences in life through all forms of media and in reality that used to be the preserves of those many years older.  This is where the real loss to the Church is concreted in place if the quality of teaching beyond the GCSE qualification is not in place.

The inference being that all regular Mass goers are in awe of the Clerical Hierarchy? Disappointed with that sort of argument from yourself TYP.

I absolutely accept that there has, and continues to be, a sharp decline in Mass attendances, but as someone who regularly attends Mass I would take issue with a further inference that it is only those in their 'autumn years' who are attending. I see all seasons well represented.

I also regularly attend Mass on a weekly basis and I have described my own observation of those attending.  The demographic of those attending Mass at a weekend will depend on how and what is presented by the clergy.  My own grown up children still attend on most occasions but I can see how they could easily drift away given how little they get from it depending on who is saying it.  In this area the number of teenage and older rapidly decreased when a relatively young priest, from my standpoint, decided to enforce a one hour Mass and obviously revelled in doing so.  When he moved on those young people left.  In this area we have Integrated primary and secondary schools that are growing while their Catholic alternatives are declining in return, this is also a sign of decline in the influence of the Church that is not found in other areas.  Neither school receives the same service from the Church as their CCMS counterparts, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

In terms of holding the clerical hierarchy in awe, I perhaps should have been more precise and said that this is the situation for those in the generation above us or the demographic that we are beginning to replace.