Mass attendance

[Franko]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite.  Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition.  If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.

It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.

[Orior]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite.  Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition.  If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.

It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.

Agreed.

[thejuice]

I didn't think he was being sanctimonious or condescending. Running ones life based entirely on superstition isn't ideal and can even be tragic. That said it's extremely rare these days and a little superstition doesn't hurt.

[Gmac]

I go maybe ten times a year and the way I look at it is you could be in a lot worse places for an hour a good choir can be nice to listen too and maybe u run into a few people to say hello  too ,don't take it so seriously and turn off the phone and enjoy the peace.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

I'm not superstitious in the least. Unlike another poster here; I think the ritual of the church is important as a way of marking stages in ones life as well as a means of coming together as a community.I don't particularly care for sermons or what a lot of churches stances on the issues of the day.

The problem is a large number of lay people and atheists seem to know as little about Christianity and its history as each other and by that measure little about its role in the formation of western or European civilization. We make the mistake of only looking to the bible usually to suit our own points of view.

Spinoza's understanding of God as an impersonal being at the center of the universe that isn't so far removed from that of the idea of the laws of nature and post enlightenment theories of the origins of life. He was strongly influenced by the Stoicism of Ancient Greece which helped formulate his views. It made him a heretic in the eyes of the church but I think in this day and age people would throw him out with the holy bath water much to our loss.

I also found it odd in a way that western tourists fawning over Buddhas and temples in Thailand which I doubt they have little understanding, traveling at great expense to see them, never seemingly calling to question the superstition or the level influence Buddhist monks have on society. Yet these same people wouldn't look sideways at a historic church that sits in the center of their town or village despite what it could tell them about their past and their place in the world.

There is a tradition of interpreting Spinoza as an atheist.  For him,on this interpretation, god is simply everything that exists.  If one takes this view, rejecting the bathwater of Christianity/theism doesn't involve throwing out the baby of Spinoza's thought.

[T Fearon]

Naturally I never miss Mass on Sunday.I thank God for parents who handed down a strong faith (I remember as a youngster,we would all say the rosary together nightly before bedtime,does that happen in any household nowadays),and I am equally grateful for a strong Catholic education (I bet plenty of the cynics on this thread availed of this too) and have no time for so called integrated education.

Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.

[gallsman]

Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.

That's you fucked then, isn't it?

[Eamonnca1]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite.  Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition.  If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.

It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.

Play me the world's smallest violin. You tell me there's an invisible man in the sky taking a personal interest in my life and you expect me to not laugh at you? Get a grip!

[Eamonnca1]

I'm not superstitious in the least. Unlike another poster here; I think the ritual of the church is important as a way of marking stages in ones life as well as a means of coming together as a community.I don't particularly care for sermons or what a lot of churches stances on the issues of the day.

The problem is a large number of lay people and atheists seem to know as little about Christianity and its history as each other and by that measure little about its role in the formation of western or European civilization.

Au contraire: Survey: Atheists, Agnostics Know More About Religion Than Religious

We make the mistake of only looking to the bible usually to suit our own points of view.

Anyone can do that, the religious included. The Devil can quote scripture. If you object to having to come to a stop at a red light I'm sure you can dig out a Bible quote to back you up if look hard enough.

Spinoza's understanding of God as an impersonal being at the center of the universe that isn't so far removed from that of the idea of the laws of nature and post enlightenment theories of the origins of life. He was strongly influenced by the Stoicism of Ancient Greece which helped formulate his views. It made him a heretic in the eyes of the church but I think in this day and age people would throw him out with the holy bath water much to our loss.

A lot of things are worth studying under the heading of philosophy, which is a lot broader and more interesting than the narrow confines of what the catholic church preaches.

I also found it odd in a way that western tourists fawning over Buddhas and temples in Thailand which I doubt they have little understanding, traveling at great expense to see them, never seemingly calling to question the superstition or the level influence Buddhist monks have on society. Yet these same people wouldn't look sideways at a historic church that sits in the center of their town or village despite what it could tell them about their past and their place in the world.

Buddhism's a bit different from the monotheistic religions. There's not a whole lot of superstition involved, it's more concerned with inner peace and doesn't necessarily talk about a god-like figure. A lot of Buddhist practices are perfectly compatible with atheism, hence its appeal to westerners.

[Tony Baloney]

Of course what one does and how one thinks and behaves for the rest of the week,outside Mass going,is equally important.

That's you fucked then, isn't it?

[ONeill]

We've been dandering around looking like us for around 200'000 years. That's our heritage. Not a fad like religion.

[Franko]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite.  Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition.  If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.

It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.

Play me the world's smallest violin. You tell me there's an invisible man in the sky taking a personal interest in my life and you expect me to not laugh at you? Get a grip!

I didn't tell you anything apart from the fact that you were being a smug arsehole.  Which isn't up for debate.  Uber liberal Eamon preaches tolerance for all... except theists.  Enjoy Donald.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I think a lot of Irish people don't appreciate what they have until they've thrown it away. That's been my experience from living abroad.

I agree with the sentiment but superstition is something that can't be thrown away quickly enough.

Not particularly religious but this is sanctimonious, condescending shite.  Thejuice put forward an honest and well articulated post, you dismissed it out of hand as superstition.  If you tried to debate without the demeaning insults other side might see the merits of your point, rather than similarly dismissing it because the person making the statement is behaving like a smug arsehole.

It's the sort of attitude that got us Brexit and Trump and it needs to be stopped.

Well said. Spot on riposte.

[johnneycool]

Often think about this. Think for people it should be one or the other. If u don't believe/can't be bothered with mass why bother with christenings for children for example? If u have any belief in it 49 mins a week to stop and think about things can't hurt

Christenings are more or less a box ticking exercise to get the kids into the local school.

Remove that requirement and I could see christenings dropping off as well.

[Orior]

When my father was on his death bed we asked him if he wanted buried or cremated. He replied "surprise me".

Later, we found out that his last wish was for the Armagh team to lower his coffin into grave, so that they would let him down one last time.