All-Ireland Final, September 18th, 2016 - Dublin v Mayo

[Hound]

Fair enough, they have won 3 all Irelands - but are you confident that they are all still at that level? As things stand, I think Mayo match up pretty well against them and I don't subscribe to the view that they just had an off day and will improve significantly the next day. I may be proved wrong.

I agree that there's no glaringly obvious reason why Dublin's forwards should be any better the next day than they were this time.

The 27 wins in a row statistic has annoyed me for a long time. Utterly irrelevant. About 20 of those matches, the opposition made absolutely no attempt to beat us, and we take the league seriously (rightly in my view, I've really enjoyed winning them after so many years with no league success).

As for the 6 forwards:
Connolly: Our best forward v Mayo. I was actually happy with him. Keegan and himself neutralised each other pretty much, although, in my biased opinion, Connolly influenced the game more than Keegan. I'd be happy for an exact repeat next time, but that may be wishful thinking.

Kilkenny: Plenty of workrate, but little incision. He played the way he's been playing in the All Ireland series. Goes sideways mostly, sometimes forwards, sometimes backwards! No reason to think he'll be better or worse next time. He's not a good shooter (poor technique), but he can get a good streaky run from time to time. 

Flynn: Anonymous. Same as all year. No reason to think he'll do anything differently next time.

Brogan: Not in great form. Still gets to the ball (more often than not) ahead of his marker. But usually gets bottled up quickly or has to release. A similar performance to his others this year, so no reason to think we'll see an explosion next time.

McManamon: Plenty of workrate, didn't contribute a whole heap. Tried a shot off his left that went well wide (scored from a very similar position v Kerry). Big mistake from Gavin taking him off straight after he made a bad passing mistake, because it's the last quarter, when the game loses a lot of shape, that he excels (as he did v Kerry). My biased view is I think we'd have won by a few had Gavin taken off Flynn instead of Kev at that time.

Rock: I'm not Rock's biggest fan, by a long shot, but I'd give him a pass. The conditions, and a couple of very difficult starters counted against him. But he still came up with 2 pressure points late in the 2nd half. I wouldn't say he'll miss anything easy the next day, and he'll get a few hard ones too.

Subs:
Andrews: Did very well when he came on, but shackled well in the 2nd half in fairness to the Mayo defence (which was top notch). Surely has to start the next day. Surely?

Mannion: Pacy, lively, but didnt seem to have enough confidence to take on a man in a danger area and create a point scoring opportunity for himself.   

O'Gara: Scored a point from 25 yards out in front of the posts v Kerry, and some Dublin fans thought this was utterly magnificent. Tried the same v Mayo and barely got it off the grass. Ineffective and will be ineffective again the next day.

Costello: With the grace of god, will have moved a place up the pecking order the next day and may see some action. Plenty of ability, yet to produce it in a big match (not having had a heap of opportunities, in fairness)

So overall, it's fair to expect a slight improvement in the Dublin forwards, but nothing of huge significance.

It's going to be a game that can go either way. Like almost all our championship games v Mayo in recent years. 

[macdanger2]

Hi folks, heading to Lanzarote with the family tomorrow for a couple of weeks and will miss replay. Anyone know whats best way to watch it online? Is rte player a goer? Pub might be an issue with 2 little ones!! 

Rte website had details on how to view it worldwide last Sunday, Google it and the page is probably still there

[Fuzzman]

I think Dublins' forwards were a shadow of themselves on Sunday due to two things.
They had not came up against that intensity of tackle before i believe. Even v Kerry or against Mayo last year. It reminded me of Tyrone v Kerry in 2003 that Kerry were shell shocked and their forwards struggled to score all day (only scoring 6 points in total).
Dublin forwards were used to getting good ball and having time to lay if off or to turn and shoot but the ref was very willing to let a lot of robust challenges go (which could be given as fouls on other days) and so Dublin were rattled. Combine this with the wet conditions, so a very slippery ball to catch (as seen when Rock let a simple enough catch drop for Boyle to score the OG) and also to kick as we saw so many bad wides by both teams.

Mayo played like men possessed and even CoC was much more physical than normal to the extent that he could have got sent off or black carded. Dublin can play amazing attacking football if given time and space to do so and their forwards (and defenders) can hit amazing scores when confidence is high. However, when it's a wet day and you've defenders putting you under HUGE pressure then doubt soon creeps into your shooting as we saw from Brogan and Rock who usually rarely miss easy enough chances.

You would imagine Mayo can show this intensity again and if the ref "lets it flow" and doesn't give soft frees then I think Mayo will have a great chance again. A lot of teams fear Dublin and are mentally defeated even before they start (including Kerry recently) but Mayo showed them no respect whatsoever and if they can iron out some of their problems like the two O'Sheas wasting so much possession then I think we could see a surprise.

[Jinxy]

Are you even allowed wear long-sleeved jerseys during the championship now?
Can't remember the last time I saw them.
Pete McGrath was on the radio talking about how it's harder for players to gather the wet ball in first-time in short-sleeves than it is in long-sleeves.

[BennyHarp]

I believe Mayo may have gone all in with their performance on Sunday and may have left it behind them to a certain extent. Difficult to maintain that level of intensity for another 70 mins. I can only see Dublin improving and one if not more of their forwards stepping up to make the difference in the replay.
I hope to be proved wrong.

I'm not convinced by the Dublin forward line. They look great when flat tracking a Leinster team programmed to take their beating but Connolly looks spooked by the very sight of Lee Keegan, Brogan and Flynn are living on past achievements, Kilkenny has talent to burn but this looks wasted as he runs around in circles picking up lose ball in his own half, shovelling the ball sideways. He appears to have lost the confidence to kick a long range point which was a big feature of his game when he burst onto the scene. Dean Rock will be lying awake sleepless tonight still agonising over his performance last Sunday - I hope for Dublins sake that he isn't a confidence player and McMannamon is a one trick pony who is meat and drink to a tight marking defence.

That Dublin forward line has won 3 x AI's and 4 x Div 1 National leagues - I'm not sure what standards are set in your county to get your approval. Kevin McManamon has made significant contributions at the highest level for three AI's, again I'm not sure what is needed for your approval.

Sunday was not a day for forwards to shine - Brogan has had a mixed year but is generally a big game player, Flynn was poor all last year after a stellar number of years - a groin operation over last autumn was supposed to fix the issue. He's been playing deeper since but he has had a quiet year by his standards.

Fair enough, they have won 3 all Irelands - but are you confident that they are all still at that level? As things stand, I think Mayo match up pretty well against them

Of course they match up well to them - Mayo have been a top side for a number of years - they've been 'there or thereabout' but not good enough. I wouldn't be writing off triple AI winners on the basis of a wet day in Croker.

Ok, is Brogan the player he was 4 or 5 years ago? Is Flynn the player he was 3 or 4 years ago? All Ireland medals or not, time catches up. We are talking about today - not 3 years ago here. We will agree to disagree about McManaman, I'm not convinced he is top drawer - neither has successive Dublin managers as he has often been left on the bench more often than not. I personally think that he is relatively easily bottled up when teams have time to prepare for him, coming off the bench can be a different story as organisation is harder to put in place at that point for a defence. Connolly gets cancelled out by Keegan and Rock is unproven - his performance on Sunday would be a worry though. Again, all im saying is, that I don't think the rain was the key factor on Sunday, they met a team who were well matched to them and they struggled up front. I don't subscribe to the view that Dublin will just crank up a gear and turn it on the replay. I apologise for this viewpoint as I fully understand that it's frowned upon on these pages to not think that Dublin are the greatest team in the history of team sport.

[Chimley]

Are you even allowed wear long-sleeved jerseys during the championship now?
Can't remember the last time I saw them.
Pete McGrath was on the radio talking about how it's harder for players to gather the wet ball in first-time in short-sleeves than it is in long-sleeves.

There's a danger that it would be easier for the longer sleeve to get snagged on the velchro on the back of an opponents glove in close contact.

[iorras]

Are you even allowed wear long-sleeved jerseys during the championship now?
Can't remember the last time I saw them.
Pete McGrath was on the radio talking about how it's harder for players to gather the wet ball in first-time in short-sleeves than it is in long-sleeves.

There's a danger that it would be easier for the longer sleeve to get snagged on the velchro on the back of an opponents glove in close contact.

What? Do they do a Health and Safety method statement on this stuff now.
Sounds like a genius idea, play with long sleeved jersies if its raining, spray rugby grip wax on the sleeves as well and the gloves.
Do any teams do that I wonder?

[AZOffaly]

I think the long sleeve jerseys McHugh is referring to is the older style ones. The cotton type ones that rip the nipples off you when it's wet. The new style material is probably less adhesive than natural skin.

[Jinxy]

God, I remember playing a few underage games in a downpour wearing those heavy cotton jerseys.
They'd weigh half a stone by the end of it.

[Canalman]

Are you even allowed wear long-sleeved jerseys during the championship now?
Can't remember the last time I saw them.
Pete McGrath was on the radio talking about how it's harder for players to gather the wet ball in first-time in short-sleeves than it is in long-sleeves.

Think McGrath has a valid point here.

Have to say also that the younger generation  of footballers have an obsession with wearing mouldies all the time , even when wet. For me , last Sunday was a day for the screw in stud type boots for grip. Doubt many wore them last Sunday.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I believe Mayo may have gone all in with their performance on Sunday and may have left it behind them to a certain extent. Difficult to maintain that level of intensity for another 70 mins. I can only see Dublin improving and one if not more of their forwards stepping up to make the difference in the replay.
I hope to be proved wrong.

I'm not convinced by the Dublin forward line. They look great when flat tracking a Leinster team programmed to take their beating but Connolly looks spooked by the very sight of Lee Keegan, Brogan and Flynn are living on past achievements, Kilkenny has talent to burn but this looks wasted as he runs around in circles picking up lose ball in his own half, shovelling the ball sideways. He appears to have lost the confidence to kick a long range point which was a big feature of his game when he burst onto the scene. Dean Rock will be lying awake sleepless tonight still agonising over his performance last Sunday - I hope for Dublins sake that he isn't a confidence player and McMannamon is a one trick pony who is meat and drink to a tight marking defence.

That Dublin forward line has won 3 x AI's and 4 x Div 1 National leagues - I'm not sure what standards are set in your county to get your approval. Kevin McManamon has made significant contributions at the highest level for three AI's, again I'm not sure what is needed for your approval.

Sunday was not a day for forwards to shine - Brogan has had a mixed year but is generally a big game player, Flynn was poor all last year after a stellar number of years - a groin operation over last autumn was supposed to fix the issue. He's been playing deeper since but he has had a quiet year by his standards.

Fair enough, they have won 3 all Irelands - but are you confident that they are all still at that level? As things stand, I think Mayo match up pretty well against them

Of course they match up well to them - Mayo have been a top side for a number of years - they've been 'there or thereabout' but not good enough. I wouldn't be writing off triple AI winners on the basis of a wet day in Croker.

Ok, is Brogan the player he was 4 or 5 years ago? Is Flynn the player he was 3 or 4 years ago? All Ireland medals or not, time catches up. We are talking about today - not 3 years ago here. We will agree to disagree about McManaman, I'm not convinced he is top drawer - neither has successive Dublin managers as he has often been left on the bench more often than not. I personally think that he is relatively easily bottled up when teams have time to prepare for him, coming off the bench can be a different story as organisation is harder to put in place at that point for a defence. Connolly gets cancelled out by Keegan and Rock is unproven - his performance on Sunday would be a worry though. Again, all im saying is, that I don't think the rain was the key factor on Sunday, they met a team who were well matched to them and they struggled up front. I don't subscribe to the view that Dublin will just crank up a gear and turn it on the replay. I apologise for this viewpoint as I fully understand that it's frowned upon on these pages to not think that Dublin are the greatest team in the history of team sport.

Actually think the rain and slippy underfoot conditions was a big factor in the game. It makes it a day for defenders. The last two All-Ireland finals have been played in similar wet slippy conditions and in both games the Dublin forwards have struggled. Even against Kerry last year while Dublin always looked comfortable they could only eke out a narrow 3 point win despite being completely in control of the game.

It's Ireland though so no guarantee it's dry for the replay.

[Jinxy]

Are you even allowed wear long-sleeved jerseys during the championship now?
Can't remember the last time I saw them.
Pete McGrath was on the radio talking about how it's harder for players to gather the wet ball in first-time in short-sleeves than it is in long-sleeves.

Think McGrath has a valid point here.

Have to say also that the younger generation  of footballers have an obsession with wearing mouldies all the time , even when wet. For me , last Sunday was a day for the screw in stud type boots for grip. Doubt many wore them last Sunday.

That pitch won't take a stud though, no matter how much rain there is.
You'd be crippled.

[westbound]

Correct Jinxy

Croke park is always 'solid' underfoot and when the surface gets wet, it becomes extremely greasy and balls skid along rather than take a 'normal' bounce.

It makes it very difficult to control the ball and suits defenders.

[cuconnacht]

Hi folks, heading to Lanzarote with the family tomorrow for a couple of weeks and will miss replay. Anyone know whats best way to watch it online? Is rte player a goer? Pub might be an issue with 2 little ones!! 

RTE.Mainstreet i think said that the rte player was open with geo block removed for the game,I tried it just now and the geo is back up but you,ll be nearer hq even in lanzarote and like he said on the day so worth a peak.

GAAGO.Ive Derry,Kerry,and Donny mates both sides of the big pond who swear by this but invariably at some point have all ended up swearing at it!

Sky Sports 5 Live Streaming - Live Cricket and Watch Online ...
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Sky Sports 5 Live Streaming and watch live cricket streaming and soccer online for free on CricHD.

This one ya can take to the bank.Ive used this under shadow of aztec pyramids,cantinas where landlords stuck it up on a big screen yet you wouldnt get phone reception!Every game perfect.
The match is on skysports 2 but i stuck the address(dont know how to do links)for 5,GAA Championship review at 11pm tonight as you should do a dry run to work it out and check quality before ya leave,nothing worse than shittn a brick about seeing the big game,have it in your pocket.

Good luck on your travels
Thon "los futbolistas de Mayo.......y Dublin"

[seafoid]

This is superb

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-and-mayo-are-peers-but-they-are-not-seen-as-equals-1.2798747

Dublin and Mayo are peers but they are not seen as equals
Close your eyes and imagine Mayo had given away a three point lead in injury time
about 12 hours ago

Malachy Clerkin
The greatest rebranding exercise in Irish sport took place in Croke Park seven years ago. Nothing to do with Mayo or Dublin, nothing to do with the GAA at all, in fact. No, it was the day Leinster rugby rose up as one and thumped Munster in the Heineken Cup semi-final in front of 82,000.
It was a duffing, plain and simple. A brutal declaration of not taking this anymore. It was a kid who'd spent years being picked on turning bully and very much enjoying it.
If you put together a montage you'd overlay it with Thom Yorke of Radiohead sneering "this is what you get when you mess with us".
It's funny now to look back and recall just how easy it was to insult Leinster in those days. There was the Ladyboy stuff, obviously, but not all the jibes were that unsubtle.
I remember being on a radio panel that afternoon on a makeshift stage at the front of the Croke Park hotel and one of the other talking heads making fun of Isa Nacewa's kicking style out of his hand.
The rest of us kind of chuckled along, but not because we had given it any particularly deep thought before. It was more that, yeah, sure that's the kind of thing Leinster would do, isn't it? Bring in a fella to play full-back who didn't kick the ball properly. That was, like, soooo Leinster.
Everything changed for them that day.
They beat Munster 25-6 and by three tries to none, and went on to win their first Heineken Cup three weeks later. They followed up with two more, and nobody ever mentioned Ladyboys again. Nacewa, of course, became a club legend.
Second Captains

Nobody laughs at Leinster now. When they fail, they get criticised. It's not always even-handed and it can often be harsh and even spiteful, as with all teams. But the undercurrent of derision that was once there is a long-since faded memory. That's what happens in sport. Winning changes how people see you, and it takes a lot to change it back.
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Swap the jerseys
Close your eyes and swap the jerseys last Sunday. Imagine Mayo had been three points up in the 69th minute and still found a way not to win.
Imagine they'd been a point up with two minutes to go and Cillian O'Connor had tried to score from a sideline ball, leaving enough time on the clock after he missed for Dublin to equalise from the kickout.
Imagine the combination of pity and disdain that would have been directed Mayo's way.
Imagine also what would have been said about Dublin. The mark of champions. Stuck to their process, trusted their experience. Dug it out when the need was greatest. Never beaten till they're beaten. All guff, really. But – and this is the key point – all thoroughly believable guff.
When you win you put a nice big chunk of change on deposit in the bank where nobody can touch it.
You are forgiven for all manner of ills and spills because you have shown that you have a record of being able to get across the line. Judgement is usually sensible and mostly benign.
When you don't win people don't want to hear it. It's a simple truth that Mayo have given Dublin stiffer examinations than Kerry since 2011 – Kerry have lost four from four, Mayo have one win, two draws and two defeats.
Yet if this was a Dublin-Kerry replay we were preparing for it is unlikely you would be hearing very much talk of Kerry having left it behind them the first day.
Instead the inevitable consensus says that Dublin can't possibly be as bad in the replay as they were on Sunday. They will find their feet, their shooting boots and enough goals of their own not to have to rely on Mayo's.
Gripe pile
Sure as night follows day, this view has annoyed some Mayo people no end. It goes on the gripe pile, along with – and this is not a gag – the fact that there were two Dubs on The Sunday Game panel the other night. One of them was Des Cahill. This is the sort of paranoia that strikes people who feel they are not being taken seriously.
They should let it wash over them, frankly. Leaving Croke Park on Sunday night it was hard to feel too sorry for the gathered thousands of Mayo people on the streets.
Leave aside all the fatalism and the talk of famine and all the rest of it. This must be an enthralling time to feel connected to the Mayo football team.
Honesty
Imagine looking down from the stands and seeing those players as your representatives. The honesty, the drive, the total manic unwillingness to allow their myriad flaws define them.
There are plenty worse things you could be doing with your life than following the Mayo football team around.
For the rest of us, though, it's disgustingly simple. Time and again over the past five seasons Dublin and Mayo have shown themselves to be peers. Yet there is no chance of them being seen as equals unless and until Mayo go and beat them. You are who you are until you change who you are.
Only one way to do that.