Championship structures - the never ending saga?

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Owenmoresider's one which I too struggled to read starts out somewhat similar to the GPA proposal but went crazy somewhere in the middle.

A conference system could work if there were 4 conferences of 8 teams playing for the provincial crowns but would require all teams to a minimum 15 competitive games a season to work which is a non runner presently unfortunately. E.g. Eastern teams play the other 7 teams in their conference and 8 others from a different conference on a rotating basis. Plenty of different playoff permutations could be explored too.

[Rossfan]

Are we all  or most of us here agreed that the HQ proposal of extended group style closing stages of the Championship is
1- a bad idea
2- a non runner in official GAA circles.

[BennyCake]

Quotes from Pauric Duffy, today's Irish News:

"...people want to see the top teams playing each other more often..."

"People talk about Tipperary or a Galway to get through to an AI semi final, but you want the two best teams to make it through to the final".


In other words, Carlow, Leitrim, Antrim and the rest - sod off! Elitist or what?

[Zulu]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

[Captain Obvious]

Pauric Duffy proposed championship format will just make the strong stronger, the weak weaker and his big bank account bigger. Would love to stay it won't go ahead but this is the same Mr Duffy that got his wish finally to scrap a popular and entertaining U21 football grade and replaced it with a diluted U20 version.

The GAA championship is a cup competition and like any cup competition upsets and underdog stories are one of the most interesting features of it.  If you want a elite competition where the best teams play each other more often then you are looking at the league however is it possible for the "elite" to take the NFL as serious as they take the championship?

[The Trap]

It will be like playing a division one league in the winter/spring and a division one championship in the summer - at least in the other 24 counties they can get on with club action. Unfortunately I am from a county that will probably be in the last eight every year! At the start anyway until the clubs don't produce the players to keep them there............

[Rossfan]

Championship is about finding the best or champion team.
People do want the best teams to meet in the closing stages.
No matter what structure you come up with the current Leitrim/Waterford/Carlow etc won't make the last 8.
While it was great to see Clare deservedly make the last 8 they were out if their depth there.
But at least with the knock out format there was only one hiding.

By the way it was Congress changed the under age competitions to u17 and u20 in the interests of player welfare.

[BennyCake]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

Structures, facilities, backroom teams etc... how could a Leitrim compete with the Dublins in those terms? Even Jersey sponsoring - Dublin multimillion deal, Leitrim a few thousand.

The c'ship should be able underdog, shock defeats, one off games. Clare in an AI semi, Leitrim likewise, Donegal in their first AI final...that's what people want to see. Everyone deserves the same chance, ie an open draw.

All these proposed formats favour the big counties. Continuous semis and finals where Dublin play Kerry, Kerry v Mayo, Mayo v Dublin. Meanwhile 29 counties are bored out of there skulls, watching the same players, the same teams. What's the point of that?

It's the same with the Champions League, I'd prefer to see an open draw. It won't happen because there's so much money involved and they want the Reals, Barcas, Milan's, PSGs, Chelsea's in the later rounds. The GAA are thinking the same way as elitist UEFA

[AZOffaly]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

Elitist is when it is set up to explicitly exclude or disadvantage the weaker teams or to aid the stronger ones. A meritocracy is what we aim for, where there's equal opportunity, and the best teams win. However Padraig Duffy's comment could easily be seen as 'we don't want Tipperary or Galway in the final' and that's bullshit.

[blewuporstuffed]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

Elitist is when it is set up to explicitly exclude or disadvantage the weaker teams or to aid the stronger ones. A meritocracy is what we aim for, where there's equal opportunity, and the best teams win.

I think what we need is system that allows the weaker teams the chance to improve and progress through the championship if they do, however it needs to be a fair system that inst dependant on geography, how easy or difficult your path to an AI is.
Whatever solution we come up with i still think it needs to be based on the league placings,
with the lower placed teams playing qualifying rounds to reach the AI proper.
That gives weaker teams games against teams of their own level and then if they get through the chance to compete with the big boys.
It should also stop the complete mismatches where team rank#1 are hammering a  team ranked #32

[The Trap]

So will Padraig not be best pleased if Tipp beat Mayo?

[Rossfan]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

Elitist is when it is set up to explicitly exclude or disadvantage the weaker teams or to aid the stronger ones. A meritocracy is what we aim for, where there's equal opportunity, and the best teams win.

I think what we need is system that allows the weaker teams the chance to improve and progress through the championship if they do, however it needs to be a fair system that inst dependant on geography, how easy or difficult your path to an AI is.
Whatever solution we come up with i still think it needs to be based on the league placings,
with the lower placed teams playing qualifying rounds to reach the AI proper.
That gives weaker teams games against teams of their own level and then if they get through the chance to compete with the big boys.
It should also stop the complete mismatches where team rank#1 are hammering a  team ranked #32

See my proposals back on page 1 or 2.

[Zulu]

A competition should be won by the best teams. This isn't elitist at all. Any elite level competition structure shouldn't be concerned about anything or than giving everyone the same structured path to winning the title. If it does that then everyone can win it if they are good enough.

Carlow or Waterford will never improve through competition structures, that will only happen through work on the ground.

Elitist is when it is set up to explicitly exclude or disadvantage the weaker teams or to aid the stronger ones. A meritocracy is what we aim for, where there's equal opportunity, and the best teams win. However Padraig Duffy's comment could easily be seen as 'we don't want Tipperary or Galway in the final' and that's bullshit.

Any comment can be 'interpreted' the way people want to do so. I don't believe PD wants a system where the likes of Dublin and Kerry only win All Irelands, why would a Monaghan man want that? I don't think PD's format is the right one but he has proposed one that he thinks is an improvement on the current one, which it probably is, but is constrained by the need to retain the provincials and as I've said many times, once your starting point is 4 uneven groups it's nigh on impossible to come up with a good solution.

All counties can improve in any format so a competition format shouldn't be concerned with 'improving' counties but only with giving them a fair chance to compete. PD's format does that.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm backing you up, this is not an elitist proposal, it is a meritocratic proposal. But I still don't like his comment. Why mention Tipp or Galway at all?

[Jinxy]

We should have a Gaaboard championship to decide who has the best suggestion for a new championship format.
First, we'll need to discuss the format of the championship to decide which is the best format of the championship.