If it's not about the money then why are Dublin so far ahead?

[Zulu]

The results don't prove it, far from it in fact. As I said, me, you or anyone on this board wouldn't beat Usain Bolt in a race no matter what we did or support we got because we just don't have the athletic ability. Dublin have more players to pick from than Westmeath so it is likely that they will have guys who are better athletes, Johnny Cooper, James McCarthy, Paul Flynn etc. and if trained properly will out run most opponents. However, they also have some of the best footballers to ever play the game, not sure Westmeath have anyone who falls into that category so better natural athletes and better footballers equals an easy win. Mayo have enjoyed that advantage over Leitrim, Sligo and Roscommon by virtue of population for many years too. I can't recall you bemoaning those advantages though.

All the top teams are investing in sports science, Barry Sloan of Arsenal is still overseeing Mayo's S&C program and had Cian O'Neill (current Kildare manager) travel up from Limerick as a football coach. Dublin's S&C or football coaching wouldn't be in advance of that.

Mentioning food programs just highlights you don't really know what you're talking about. Eating well as an athlete isn't difficult and again many amateur sports people would know how to fuel their body properly and the timing of meals for performance.

If you want to have a level playing field than we can cut Dublin's funding but we'd also need to cut Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry, Donegal and quite a few others to bring them back to the Carlow, Leitrim and Waterford's of this world. We'd also need to do something about population advantages, any suggestions? After all you just want a level playing field.

I'm not a Dub by the way but played county football for one of the real minnows so reading Mayo men whinge about an unlevel playing field is pretty galling when you have firsthand knowledge of the real unfairness of it all.

My advice to you would be to enjoy being in the football first world and work a bit harder to close the small gap to the Dubs.

[The Hill is Blue]

At this stage there is no getting away from the fact that cash is king and the Kings of cash are the duds.

Something has to change.

If the Leinster final today was in portlaoise then we have a positive start.

It's also completely unbalanced when the Ross, Mayo, Galway, Donegal and all the rest now have to get up for work in the morning while the well looked after dubs players will be out playing golf on Oliver Barry's course for the day.

Why bother bringing this up?  No body in headquarters cares. They have their cash cow. You can list all the advantages from

Home games for every match
Home dressing room
Easy access for fans
More fans at all home matches
More money
Players don't have to work
Players are all based in the county
Backroom team that would put any professional outfit to shame
Money pumped into clubs
Money pumped into coaches

We've heard them all before.

Mayo are getting in their excuses early this year. Face facts, since the 1950s your team has been pathetic and no amount of whinging about perceived disadvantages will get away from that fact. What are your excuses for Mayo's decades of failure long before this present Dublin team ever came along?

[Hound]

Money's a complete red herring. Dubs don't spend any more on the intercounty team than Mayo, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone.

The extra money that Dublin gets is spread all across the county in the battle to get more kids to play GAA rather than soccer, rugby, computers, etc. You'd swear by some of the comments on here that every young lad in Dublin was being trained every week by paid coaches!! My lad has been playing for 6 years, and got 2 sessions from the GPO. Coaching and training is all down to parents, like every club in the country - many of whom haven't got a notion but are doing their best.

Development squads at underage are very well run, but coaches are unpaid ex-county players.
We've a well run club senior game. Still only 50%-60% as good as it could be, but miles better than most other counties - good stepping stone for lads coming out of the development squads who aren't yet at the level required for senior intercounty. It helps keep lads interested in football rather than dropping out and I believe it means that we can never be absolute rubbish.

We've a nice advantage in our lads live/work all within about 1 hour of where training takes place.
Playing in Croker in the league is an advantage.

But the biggest advantage we have is the number of top class players we have. The Dubs hurlers have pretty much all the same advantages as the footballers (apart from playing as often in Croker and I know Anthony Daly often complained about not being treated as well), but the hurlers don't have any really top class players so generally aren't a factor when August/September comes.

Cluxton, Connolly, Flynn and Bernard are all going to retire at around the same time, and we'll then see a significant reduction in standard. Hopefully a couple of years away yet....

By the way, I think we're very vulenrable this year. Haven't lost a game (a lot down to teams playing poorly against us) but there are clear weaknesses that teams have not exploited yet. We're absolutely not as good as we were last year, and will need to improve to win Sam.

[highorlow]

Mentioning food programs just highlights you don't really know what you're talking about. Eating well as an athlete isn't difficult and again many amateur sports people would know how to fuel their body properly and the timing of meals for performance.

Oh, ok this lad must be full of shit then,

http://www.the42.ie/daniel-davey-leinster-rugby-dublin-gaa-nutritionist-interview-2766443-May2016/

If you want to have a level playing field than we can cut Dublin's funding but we'd also need to cut Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry, Donegal and quite a few others to bring them back to the Carlow, Leitrim and Waterford's of this world. We'd also need to do something about population advantages, any suggestions? After all you just want a level playing field.

Now that's just a stupid statement. I've suggested a communist approach to the funding.

Based on your argument if the Johny Coopers, James McCarty's and Flynns etc were from Westmeath then they would win an AI? Cop on to yourself.

[muppet]

This thread isn't begrudging Dublin at all.

It is simply spelling out the facts as they currently are. Dublin have a huge advantage over other counties and it is money that is the key factor imo.

It's easy for your genius manager to see that the financially inferior Westmeath trained team were running out of puff against the financially superior Dublin trained team, then, of course he is going to bring on more attackers.

Shur if ye passed the ball to the streaker yesterday he would have scored.

Dublin can afford the best of dietitians, physios, forwards coach (sherlock i believe), food suppliers, swimming pools etc.

If you can't see this as an advantage over the others than you are blind.

The best bit about this line is it is probably true. 

Brolly and Spillane are probably kicking themselves they didn't think of it.

[Zulu]

I've read that link quickly and this is the type of thing he is providing the Dublin footballers -


"The calorie requirements for GAA players at the top level training five days a week and playing at the weekend are enormous.

"So it's about providing guys with the information so they can prepare their lunch and have snacks with them throughout the day and teaching them how they eat in work and how to make the best food choices when they're out and about.

"There aren't very many things you can eat in a petrol station but we go through the best case scenario, worst case scenario."

Yep, hugely advanced stuff. To be fair, I'm sure he gives the players some good information but nothing that any county team can't get in their own counties and most certainly do. You can be sure Mayo players are as aware of what they should be eating and when they should be eating it as any Dub so you're on weak ground with that accusation.

Not sure I follow your last statement. Are you not after a level playing field? If so what is stupid about saying everyone is capped at what Carlow spend?

If Cooper, McCarthy, Flynn, Connolly and Brogan were playing for Westmeath then yes, they would have a decent chance of winning an All Ireland with Westmeath. Put those five players into the Mayo team and they'd certainly have won All Irelands in the Mayo colours. Are you seriously arguing they wouldn't have?

[Walter Cronc]

I for one love watching the Dubs. Players like Connolly & Brogan come around once every 20 years, lets enjoy them for god sake. Its already evident by recent results that the gap in Leinster is narrowing at underage. Kildare and Meath are the 2 biggest jokers in the pack!

[AZOffaly]

Zulu,

I'm confused by what you are trying to say? Are you saying Dublin are just so much better than everyone else because of their population? That isn't true because history has told us so.

I get annoyed when people tell us we need to just accept that Dublin have some sort of inherent right to be better than us, just because we have a lesser population.

What has caused, in my view anyway, the widening gulf is that Dublin are getting levels of investment from the GAA, which other top counties are having to burst themselves to meet, in the area of DEVELOPMENT. I'm not talking about nutritionists, dieticians, S&C guys. I'm not even talking about money spent on the Senior team. That's a rabbit hole that's too easy to go down and people can start pointing (as you have done) at the money spent by other top counties.

Players like Diarmuid Connolly, Bernard Brogan, Cian O'Sullivan do not just come around by virtue of a high population. They come about, with greater regularity, because the coaching structures in Dublin are so good. And they are so good, in a large part, because of money. That, to me, is just common sense and an obvious fact.

You can have money, spend it stupidly, and end up with nothing. Or you can spend it wisely, and do what Dublin have done.

However, the GAA is providing massive funding in this area for Dublin, and it is disproportionate with the rest of the country. You know I'm involved a bit here in Tipp, and I can tell you that we face obstacles that are financially rooted, that Dublin simply don't have.

So while it's easy to say the reason Dublin are so good is because they have great players (they do), my question is 'why is the GAA disproportionately funding the vehicle that helps develop these great players?'.

Dublin might just save Gaelic Football if they continue to defeat teams that go out to spoil games, but I think the game would be in a better place over all if some of that funding for Development was taken away from Dublin and redistributed. It's the definition of unfairness in my view.

[muppet]

We'll bate them. 

If we don't get turfed out before that.

[Zulu]

AZ, thank you for that reasoned and well thought out post, finally someone did it! What you've said is largely fair and true and while I think the GAA were correct to fund Dublin initially I do agree there needs to be a restructuring now so that other counties can get a leg up so to speak.

However, I disagree that history shows that population isn't the major factor, it is and history shows this beyond all doubt. The reason it didn't always manifest itself in Dublin was because Dublin didn't tap into that base as well as they could, preparation for all county teams was less than consistent and the best teams weren't always picked. Now that Dublin have mobilised their population to a much greater degree and are preparing them properly they will continue to be a powerhouse in the GAA. There was an interesting piece on the effect population had on Cavan's success recently and the author argued that Cavan's population decline mirrored their decline as a football power.

My view is that the GAA should be willing to support any county that has an underage development plan to increase the number and quality of players in their county. I see no reason why the GAA couldn't pay half a GDA's salary and 2 or 3 clubs fund the rest so that they can go in and coach in the local schools and help out the local coaches. They do this in Dublin except it's one club one GDA but in other counties it can be one GDA to 3 or 4 clubs.

I certainly don't think we should accept Dublin as perennial All Ireland champions, far from it but spare me the nonsense about their players not working, food plans or sports science advantages as that's just mealy mouthed begrudgery (not that you said any of that but it's been repeated here numerous times). The top counties have very little to complain about compared to the Dublin seniors and if they are struggling to fund underage development programs than they should go to Croke Park with a plan and a funding request as I'm sure it would be viewed sympathetically if it made sense.

I've no connection to Dublin and other than really enjoying watching them play football I'm totally neutral on whether they win things or not. I'd love to see a county as passionate about football as Mayo win an All Ireland but it's getting beyond petty the amount of flack the Dubs seem to be getting for maximising their GAA abilities. For all the nonsense about money many here seem to be ignoring the work thousands of good GAA men and women are doing in the capital.

[highorlow]

Thanks Zulu, a post where you finally admit that the cash is the difference.

[Zulu]

No problem highorlow though I definitely didn't do that! I never said it isn't a factor, of course it is, but it isn't the main one and the lies spouted by some about players not working or the dubious claims about nutritional expertise serve only to deflect the discussion from the sensible to the daft and petty.

[kerryforsam16]

At this stage there is no getting away from the fact that cash is king and the Kings of cash are the duds.

Something has to change.

If the Leinster final today was in portlaoise then we have a positive start.

It's also completely unbalanced when the Ross, Mayo, Galway, Donegal and all the rest now have to get up for work in the morning while the well looked after dubs players will be out playing golf on Oliver Barry's course for the day.

Why bother bringing this up?  No body in headquarters cares. They have their cash cow. You can list all the advantages from

Home games for every match
Home dressing room
Easy access for fans
More fans at all home matches
More money
Players don't have to work
Players are all based in the county
Backroom team that would put any professional outfit to shame
Money pumped into clubs
Money pumped into coaches

We've heard them all before.

You left out one bit. We're just better then everyone else at the moment.

World class players. Enjoy them you'll never see a team like this again in your lifetime. They'll be gone in two years and won't be replaced by anything near as good.

That'll give the whingers like you ample opportunity to get back to the top ( if you can)

What's more impressive is that we've done it by producing arguably the best forward unit seen in the modern game. While other teams go down the puke route.

We entertain.

World Class players!!!! An amateur sport played in one country or 2 to be pedantic. Dublin have eaten Leinster and no one cares. Do it without the money and maybe be somebody outside Dublin and the GAA finance department might actually care.

What jobs did Brian Lacey, Karl O'Dwyer and Brian Murphy won Leinster in 98 and 2000. What jobs did John Divilly and Seanie Johnston have when played with Kildare? Declan Browne was approached to play for Lillies and McGeeney tried to sign up Shane Supple. Don't forget the hundreds of thousands spent on Mick O'Dwyer, Kieran McGeeney, Paul Grimley and Jason Ryan

[Donnellys Hollow]

Lacey is a pension's advisor. Karl got a job in the school in Rathangan, he's teaching in Confey now. Murphy worked for Dawn Meats in Naas. Divilly was working for the MCR Group. Johnston was just minding the apartment!

[Dinny Breen]

Kerryforsam16 sounding like Dublin's biggest grunter and not a Kerry supporter. Someday a Dublin supporter will admit that all the inorganic advantages allied to their considerable organic advantages are the reasons behind why Steaua Dublin are currently so successful.