Donegal V Tyrone Ulster Final 17th July

[JoG2]

I'm from Donegal stock and don't like Tyrone, so would be fairly neutral 

imo, this will be a very cagey, defensive affair with sweepers a plenty with no opposition players pushed up on them.  There is so much to gain by winning on Sunday

It'll come down to who is most economical in front of goal. To this end, the most important man on Sunday will be the ref and how he calls the tackle. You often hear the shout from the stand of "don't foul! don't foul!", when in reality the shout should be "dont blow! dont blow!". A lot of refs believe that 4/5/6 grown men can all tackle the ball at the same time, and that's their prerogative as they have the whistle.
To that end, it'll (unfortunately) be decided on how fussy Coldrick is. If he's very fussy, Donegal will win as they have the better free takers, and if he isn't I can see Tyrone nick it, if their younger breed handle the occasion ok.



Either way, I'm looking forward to it and would have been heading only for underage training

[Fuzzman]

I think a few have forgotten how intense and nasty the game last year was.
From today's Irish Times - Tyrone playing catch-up in a rip-roaring Ulster rivalry

"Obviously Donegal have had the upper hand on us," says Seán Cavanagh, as diplomatic as always, when eyeing up Tyrone's opposition in Sunday's Ulster football final. He might well have said upper fist, or indeed uppercut.
"You can't argue with their record over the past two or three years, so you have to bow down to that. And whenever you are repeatedly losing to any team, whether it's Donegal or anyone else, it is always painful. Fair play to them, they have had a serious five or six years, but you would just hope at some stage the tide would turn and it would be our chance."
It's surprising just how much that tide has turned in Donegal's favour: Sunday marks their sixth Ulster final appearance in succession, while Tyrone haven't been here since 2010 – when they last won.
It's also their fourth championship clash in five seasons, with Donegal winning all four. It leaves Tyrone seeking their first win over Donegal since 2007, although it's their last meeting, the 2015 Ulster preliminary round game, which will be freshest in the memory, not just for obvious reasons.
The sides were level on 51 minutes, only for Tyrone to fail to score for the remainder of the game: Donegal added three points to win 1-13 to 1-10.
The day afterwards, at a sponsorship event in Dublin, Cavanagh pulled up his jersey to reveal several red scars down the front of his chest, which at first glance looked like claw marks, as if he'd just been wrestling with a grizzly bear.
Scratched
His left knee was also badly scratched, and there was also a strange purple bruising behind his right knee, as if he's just been bitten by a venomous reptile. These, said Cavanagh, were the typical physical scars from any Ulster football championship match.
What worried him more, however, were the mental scars, the non-stop 'sledging' or verbal abuse that went on between both teams: "You don't need me to tell you there was plenty of off-the-ball stuff happening," he said.
"But people probably got away with things they shouldn't have got away with. And it was the same from both sides. There's no point in pointing fingers. It was just the type of game. That hot-tempered, win-at-all-costs type of Ulster championship game.
"Players probably did overstep the mark. You just have to be thick -skinned. At times it can be quite personal. You just have to accept it. I've said it before, it can be very, very personal and I know there were certain players . . that have been through tough times, and they were getting a fair bit of personal abuse."
Under the skin
He suggested the Donegal players stopped at nothing to get under the skin of their opposition, and hardly needed to identify one of those team-mates as Cathal McCarron, who rejoined the Tyrone panel earlier that year after taking time out due to his gambling addictions.
Cavanagh actually saw all three cards himself in that game, (a yellow, then a black and a red, for bringing down Donegal's Paddy McGrath), although he insisted that latter tackle wasn't deliberate.
After that game, Donegal defender Neil McGee also spoke about the close attention given to his captain, Michael Murphy, by Tyrone's Justin McMahon.
Physical
"He [Murphy] took a lot of abuse," said McGee. "It's his physical presence. If he [McMahon] tackled Ryan McHugh you would get a free, but Murphy is seen to be able to take it. He's suffering because he is so physical."
Cavanagh suggests Tyrone are an improved team on the 2015 edition, the latest evidence of that coming in their five-goal thrashing of Cavan.
"We definitely have the runners," says Cavanagh. "We have serious running power at the moment. The way the game has gone, you need that. And our size is different, our personnel is different and you would hope that it will go a long way to getting a different result.
"And we know the quality of the talent that isn't even making the 26 there at the moment. We see some of the performances some of those guys are putting in at training, and we are in that fortunate position at the moment where we have 28, 30, 32 men that really could do a job for us.
"Whenever you have that, that competitiveness in the squad, then you can see it translating to the pitch."

[screenexile]

 

[Walter Cronc]

As a neutral (can a Derry man be neutral when Tyrone are playing) I'm really looking forward to this one. The young pretenders I suppose against the battle hardened Donegal men. If its tight and Tyrone unload their bench you could see them pulling away. The performance of Gallagher and Kavanagh will be huge to Donegals chances. If Tyrone are beat it could be a big psychological set back. Tyrone by 2.

[skeog]

no gallagher playing i think neil still out is rory playing

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t94NNOP0Xcs

Check out this one from the 72 final. http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0714/802426-donegal-v-tyrone-1972/

Never saw this footage before. Interesting to see legends like McEniff and Seamus Bonner in action. The football is, in the famous words of Mourinho, 19th century!

Paddy McMahon, Tyrone number 12 - He looks like Joe with long hair and a beard. Any relation to the McMahon brothers?

First time I'd seen footage of Paddy McMahon playing and it could easily be Joe. The long hair and beard and same gait. Mar an dà sgadan.

Looking forward to the game on Sunday. I've been among those who have been more cautious about this Tyrone team and their prospects. I am glad to admit they have progressed very nicely over the past couple of seasons, better than I expected. The key feature of the Tyrone - Donegal games the past few years was Donegal grabbing hold of matches in the middle of the second half - and Tyrone wilting. Tyrone have come on without doubt and I am sure they have the talent to win here, but I'll be fascinated to see how they cope with Donegal, particularly if it is indeed close going into the last 15 or 20 mins. We'll likely find out a lot about Tyrone's class of 2016. I can't call it. Good luck lads.

[Jayop]

http://gaeliclife.com/2016/07/ulster-says-tyrone-will-win/

Interesting, all but one of the 7 County players from the other 7 Ulster counties are calling it for Tyrone.

It's so strange to be favorites in this game given our recent history. Worrys me a lot.

[longballin]

Baffles me as well why Tyrone are such overwhelming favourites. Apparently league form but don't think any Div 2 team would live with Donegal either. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Donegal are done and Tyrone are brilliant... 

[Fuzzman]

I think a lot of people are thinking Tyrone are favourites because we looked very strong v Cavan the 2nd day out.
We have been putting up big scores all year I suppose and so people see us as having a much stronger attack than in previous years.
The problem in previous years though we have struggled against teams like Donegal who really clamp us down and so I think that's why Donegal will revert back to what they do best and that is restrict us in a war of attrition.
They know we have a lot of pace so I can't see them leaving big gaps even when they push forward to attack.

[longballin]

I find it impossible to call...

[Il Bomber Destro]

Clarke is there as an option to dog Murphy. He has the strength. Remember 2005 when Brian Meenan played again Armagh and bounced round the middle hitting everything that moved? I don't think he played much before or after that game but he was great that day. Brennan will start.

Like the way u put the question mark regarding Meehan. Did he play well that day, u might be right, can't mind. Think Brennan should start as well to pick up mchugh, but who would be dropped. Surely Murphy would eat Clarke for his breakfast if they are paired off. Surprised he made the bench and there could well be a change hopefully

I'd be very worried about Clarke, looked a great talent when he made his senior debut but that injury really seems to have hurt him. McNamee's black card and Clarke coming in to get roasted by Geaney had a significant impact for us last year.

I think if Clarke is to have a future with Tyrone it will probably be out around the middle of the field.

[Jinxy]

I think a few have forgotten how intense and nasty the game last year was.
From today's Irish Times - Tyrone playing catch-up in a rip-roaring Ulster rivalry

"Obviously Donegal have had the upper hand on us," says Seán Cavanagh, as diplomatic as always, when eyeing up Tyrone's opposition in Sunday's Ulster football final. He might well have said upper fist, or indeed uppercut.
"You can't argue with their record over the past two or three years, so you have to bow down to that. And whenever you are repeatedly losing to any team, whether it's Donegal or anyone else, it is always painful. Fair play to them, they have had a serious five or six years, but you would just hope at some stage the tide would turn and it would be our chance."
It's surprising just how much that tide has turned in Donegal's favour: Sunday marks their sixth Ulster final appearance in succession, while Tyrone haven't been here since 2010 – when they last won.
It's also their fourth championship clash in five seasons, with Donegal winning all four. It leaves Tyrone seeking their first win over Donegal since 2007, although it's their last meeting, the 2015 Ulster preliminary round game, which will be freshest in the memory, not just for obvious reasons.
The sides were level on 51 minutes, only for Tyrone to fail to score for the remainder of the game: Donegal added three points to win 1-13 to 1-10.
The day afterwards, at a sponsorship event in Dublin, Cavanagh pulled up his jersey to reveal several red scars down the front of his chest, which at first glance looked like claw marks, as if he'd just been wrestling with a grizzly bear.
Scratched
His left knee was also badly scratched, and there was also a strange purple bruising behind his right knee, as if he's just been bitten by a venomous reptile. These, said Cavanagh, were the typical physical scars from any Ulster football championship match.
What worried him more, however, were the mental scars, the non-stop 'sledging' or verbal abuse that went on between both teams: "You don't need me to tell you there was plenty of off-the-ball stuff happening," he said.
"But people probably got away with things they shouldn't have got away with. And it was the same from both sides. There's no point in pointing fingers. It was just the type of game. That hot-tempered, win-at-all-costs type of Ulster championship game.
"Players probably did overstep the mark. You just have to be thick -skinned. At times it can be quite personal. You just have to accept it. I've said it before, it can be very, very personal and I know there were certain players . . that have been through tough times, and they were getting a fair bit of personal abuse."
Under the skin
He suggested the Donegal players stopped at nothing to get under the skin of their opposition, and hardly needed to identify one of those team-mates as Cathal McCarron, who rejoined the Tyrone panel earlier that year after taking time out due to his gambling addictions.
Cavanagh actually saw all three cards himself in that game, (a yellow, then a black and a red, for bringing down Donegal's Paddy McGrath), although he insisted that latter tackle wasn't deliberate.
After that game, Donegal defender Neil McGee also spoke about the close attention given to his captain, Michael Murphy, by Tyrone's Justin McMahon.
Physical
"He [Murphy] took a lot of abuse," said McGee. "It's his physical presence. If he [McMahon] tackled Ryan McHugh you would get a free, but Murphy is seen to be able to take it. He's suffering because he is so physical."
Cavanagh suggests Tyrone are an improved team on the 2015 edition, the latest evidence of that coming in their five-goal thrashing of Cavan.
"We definitely have the runners," says Cavanagh. "We have serious running power at the moment. The way the game has gone, you need that. And our size is different, our personnel is different and you would hope that it will go a long way to getting a different result.
"And we know the quality of the talent that isn't even making the 26 there at the moment. We see some of the performances some of those guys are putting in at training, and we are in that fortunate position at the moment where we have 28, 30, 32 men that really could do a job for us.
"Whenever you have that, that competitiveness in the squad, then you can see it translating to the pitch."

This is like something a child would do. 
"Look where I was hurted!"

[Maroon Manc]

I'm surprised Tyrone are such hot favourites too, I just can't see much between either teams and I'm finding it very difficult to predict a winner.

[Jayop]

Baffles me as well why Tyrone are such overwhelming favourites. Apparently league form but don't think any Div 2 team would live with Donegal either. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Donegal are done and Tyrone are brilliant... 

Most people seem to be picking Tyrone but only by the odd point too which I suppose is important. It's not like anyone is saying Tyrone are going to batter Donegal. Someone picking a winner by 1 or 2 points is really saying it could go either way.

I think a lot of people are thinking Tyrone are favourites because we looked very strong v Cavan the 2nd day out.
We have been putting up big scores all year I suppose and so people see us as having a much stronger attack than in previous years.
The problem in previous years though we have struggled against teams like Donegal who really clamp us down and so I think that's why Donegal will revert back to what they do best and that is restrict us in a war of attrition.
They know we have a lot of pace so I can't see them leaving big gaps even when they push forward to attack.

In the league....

Fermanagh restricted us to 1-9
Armagh restricted us to 0-13
Galway restricted us to 1-11
Cavan restricted us to 0-10

None of those scores will be enough to beat Donegal on Sunday imo and they'll have a meaner defense than any of those 4 sides.

Over the last few games in the Championship Donegal have scored...
2015 - 1-13
2013 - 2-10
2012 - 0-12
2011 - 2-6


Wastefulness cost us in pretty much all of those games. The last two being in Ballybofey put us at a big disadvantage to being in Clones is a help.


We've put up decent scores in a few games like Derry and Cavan replay but we've been held in other games too. OK two of those games were after the league final position was wrapped up already so they wouldn't have been giving everything like they could have done. Donegal will have a plan for our running game and I really hope we have a plan B and don't resort to taking pot shots from all over the field. I'd expect us to have at least 6/7 score-able free's from distance and it'll be whether we can finally get someone to put 5/6 of those over the bar will determine the winner. No way does Murphy have such a bad game from dead balls again for Donegal so us scoring ours is an absolute must. Personally I'd have Morgan take everything (not in Ballybofey so the grass will hopefully be cut) outside of 30 yards. Let him take a handy one or two as well to get the confidence up because he seems such a streaky kicker. Let Sean take everything inside that.

[Fuzzman]

Some interesting discussion here from Wooly and co on this podcast.
They think Ryan McHugh will be given the task to mark Peter Harte but are not sure how will benefit most from that match up.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/the-gaa-hour-with-colm-parkinson-new-donegal-and-dublin-versus-the-spread/87199