Meath vs Dublin - 26/06/16

[Jinxy]

If you've already painted a big target on your own back by having a 'man-bun', you'd better not miss a 21 yard free.
I remember in 2005 when Graham Geraghty wore white boots against Dublin, I initially thought to myself, "Hmmm... not mad about that".
Then I realised that when you're as good as Graham Geraghty is, you can wear high heels onto the field if you want.

[Canalman]

I actually did a tot of those 10 Leinster counties' qualifier results against teams from the other provinces over the past five years.
They've won 26 and lost 29. So I'm not sure the standard is any worse than the rest of the country. Win more games against Connacht and Munster teams than we lose.
We just don't happen to be Kerry, Mayo or Donegal and therefore can't compete with Dublin. Doesn't mean the standard is as atrocious as people make out.

Take Dublin out of the province and you would have a vibrant competitive championship. Yes Meath and to a lesser extend Kildare would go well but Westmeath, Laois and Offaly would fancy their chances and Longford, Wexford and Louth would look at Leinster as a realistic target, now it might become like Connacht and Munster in the 70s and 80s but if any of those counties were getting continuous provincial success it wouldn't be long before an All-Ireland was forthcoming.

Dublin have always been a beast in Leinster and then what changed is Ulster got it's act together, massive investment went into development aided by grants from the UK. Armagh and Tyrone been the main visionaries and benefactors and they dominated but slowly Monaghan and Donegal started to follow this template and now you have a really competitive province that is driving standards within.

Dublin looked at this model of development, put a plan in place and got funding from the Government and funding from the GAA. Ally all this together including playing 2/3 games at home, a massive population and critically a football culture second only to Kerry and you have not just a beast but a monster. They have set standards beyond what is capable for a Meath or a Kildare, outside of this Donegal, Mayo and Kerry are spending millions to stay in touch, not surpass but stay in touch.

Transport Dublin to any other province where the same conditions apply, all games in Croke Park and they would swallow up that province as well and everyone in Leinster will patronise you and tell you to look at your own county raise your own standards, look for investment, follow Dublin's plan but you know what they won't give a shit because Dublin is not there problem.

And before I get pillared by the usual suspects this isn't a go at Dublin and maybe it is just cyclical but no where I can I see that cycle ending.

DB, fair enough comments.

Where thought does this excuse the abysmal performance from Kildare yesterday? They were playing Westmeath, a county with a way smaller population and fewer resources. I won't even mention Clare.

Work with a few Kildare guys in work and to say they are Dublin obsessed is an understatement. Very little comment from them about Kildare itself, but plenty about Dublin. Very unhealthy and imo anyway holding Kildare back no end.

Kildare as a county has underachieved for decades now. Not all Dublin' s fault.

[twohands!!!]

If you've already painted a big target on your own back by having a 'man-bun', you'd better not miss a 21 yard free.
I remember in 2005 when Graham Geraghty wore white boots against Dublin, I initially thought to myself, "Hmmm... not mad about that".
Then I realised that when you're as good as Graham Geraghty is, you can wear high heels onto the field if you want.

The thing was that for the most part he had a fairly decent game for a relative newcomer - he did get caught badly dwelling on the ball at one stage - but that 21 yard free miss was just woeful.

On the positive side I reckon a lot of folks watching on TV had already tuned out/changed the channel by that stage as the game was so over by then.

[Jinxy]

Leinster at the moment is a bit like a street where everyone has a nice mid-range saloon car, or a comfortable hatchback in their driveway, except for this one guy who has a ferrari.
You walk out your front door every morning and get into your perfectly serviceable car to go to work, but you have to drive past the ferrari and deal with the depressing thought that you'll never have one.
Basically... it's all relative.
In every other province, the worst you have to deal with is a higher spec saloon car or maybe a nice Merc.
That doesn't have the same soul-destroying effect.

[Dinny Breen]

I actually did a tot of those 10 Leinster counties' qualifier results against teams from the other provinces over the past five years.
They've won 26 and lost 29. So I'm not sure the standard is any worse than the rest of the country. Win more games against Connacht and Munster teams than we lose.
We just don't happen to be Kerry, Mayo or Donegal and therefore can't compete with Dublin. Doesn't mean the standard is as atrocious as people make out.

Take Dublin out of the province and you would have a vibrant competitive championship. Yes Meath and to a lesser extend Kildare would go well but Westmeath, Laois and Offaly would fancy their chances and Longford, Wexford and Louth would look at Leinster as a realistic target, now it might become like Connacht and Munster in the 70s and 80s but if any of those counties were getting continuous provincial success it wouldn't be long before an All-Ireland was forthcoming.

Dublin have always been a beast in Leinster and then what changed is Ulster got it's act together, massive investment went into development aided by grants from the UK. Armagh and Tyrone been the main visionaries and benefactors and they dominated but slowly Monaghan and Donegal started to follow this template and now you have a really competitive province that is driving standards within.

Dublin looked at this model of development, put a plan in place and got funding from the Government and funding from the GAA. Ally all this together including playing 2/3 games at home, a massive population and critically a football culture second only to Kerry and you have not just a beast but a monster. They have set standards beyond what is capable for a Meath or a Kildare, outside of this Donegal, Mayo and Kerry are spending millions to stay in touch, not surpass but stay in touch.

Transport Dublin to any other province where the same conditions apply, all games in Croke Park and they would swallow up that province as well and everyone in Leinster will patronise you and tell you to look at your own county raise your own standards, look for investment, follow Dublin's plan but you know what they won't give a shit because Dublin is not there problem.

And before I get pillared by the usual suspects this isn't a go at Dublin and maybe it is just cyclical but no where I can I see that cycle ending.

DB, fair enough comments.

Where thought does this excuse the abysmal performance from Kildare yesterday? They were playing Westmeath, a county with a way smaller population and fewer resources. I won't even mention Clare.

Work with a few Kildare guys in work and to say they are Dublin obsessed is an understatement. Very little comment from them about Kildare itself, but plenty about Dublin. Very unhealthy and imo anyway holding Kildare back no end.

Kildare as a county has underachieved for decades now. Not all Dublin' s fault.

Absolutely and I don't disagree, Kildare have their own problems, we neglected our under-age, we went 18 years without reaching a Leinster minor final but have now reached 4 of the last seven including regularly beating Dublin. Yesterday was a reflection of that neglect. Transitioning promising minor to competent senior is not going well for us, Cork 2012 was a watershed but in typical GAA style we imploded, a knive of long knives ensued followed by two years of wastefulness and our development was not only stunted but has gone back at a rate of knots. The majority of our players in the laters 20s early 30s bracket look burnt out (Leper, Bolton, Smith, the O'Flahertys ) and this should be the leadership group driving standards but if they are not doing it on the pitch players will not follow so now on top of our problems we have leaderships issues. That was never more evident than yesterday, our last attack had our captain our captain foul the ball cheaply on the ground. It's absolutely soul destroying watching what you know are good footballers playing with such fear.

Yes I agree it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and we do put Dublin on a pedestal, Tom Cribben more less stated all week they don't enter any thoughts of beating Dublin.  But this shadow over every county in Leinster, is everywhere it's in the papers, it's on TV it's on the radio, Meath were beaten before they even entered the pitch yesterday, it was like Gavin set Dublin a target let's win this game without scoring goals, it was like they were keeping their powder dry for a Kerry or a Mayo later on. They treated Meath like a training excercise.

So optimism and excitement has been replaced by realism, a promising Kildare minor is going into a culture of heavy defeats, low confidence, poor performances, slaughtered by pudits and forum experts for not being Dublin and you can replace Kildare there with any other county in Leinster. The contrast to a promising Dublin minor is of course the complete opposite, a winning culture, a celebrity culture a culture where you have everything looked after, I mean having a full-time dietician available out of hours to answer questions around food is as professional as it gets.

I was disappointed Dublin didn't get their new stadium at the Spawell because I thought this multi-million euro project might mean purses been tighten, a distraction for their county and perhaps a chance for the gap to be reduced. They are the sad things that many are clinging onto.

In 2003 60k turned up to watch Kildare v Laois in the Leinster final, now you would be lucky to get 600.

[Canalman]

Leinster at the moment is a bit like a street where everyone has a nice mid-range saloon car, or a comfortable hatchback in their driveway, except for this one guy who has a ferrari.
You walk out your front door every morning and get into your perfectly serviceable car to go to work, but you have to drive past the ferrari and deal with the depressing thought that you'll never have one.
Basically... it's all relative.
In every other province, the worst you have to deal with is a higher spec saloon car or maybe a nice Merc.
That doesn't have the same soul-destroying effect.

In Meath's case, they for many years had the ferrari outside the door bought as a result of hard word and a good business over the years.. Got a bit lazy on the job, invested in quick buck apartments in Bulgaria, jacked in the building of extensions / houses and started in property speculation. Got some of the kids involved in the business who were not as good as the parents.  Started back again on the house building the last few years and will shortly be able to afford a ferrari again.

[Jinxy]

You and me both know that Dublin scum moved into the estate and shortly afterwards our Ferrari 'went missing'.

[seafoid]

Leinster at the moment is a bit like a street where everyone has a nice mid-range saloon car, or a comfortable hatchback in their driveway, except for this one guy who has a ferrari.
You walk out your front door every morning and get into your perfectly serviceable car to go to work, but you have to drive past the ferrari and deal with the depressing thought that you'll never have one.
Basically... it's all relative.
In every other province, the worst you have to deal with is a higher spec saloon car or maybe a nice Merc.
That doesn't have the same soul-destroying effect.

not never. You realise that he's mortal and the car is on hire purchase

[easytiger95]

I actually did a tot of those 10 Leinster counties' qualifier results against teams from the other provinces over the past five years.
They've won 26 and lost 29. So I'm not sure the standard is any worse than the rest of the country. Win more games against Connacht and Munster teams than we lose.
We just don't happen to be Kerry, Mayo or Donegal and therefore can't compete with Dublin. Doesn't mean the standard is as atrocious as people make out.

Take Dublin out of the province and you would have a vibrant competitive championship. Yes Meath and to a lesser extend Kildare would go well but Westmeath, Laois and Offaly would fancy their chances and Longford, Wexford and Louth would look at Leinster as a realistic target, now it might become like Connacht and Munster in the 70s and 80s but if any of those counties were getting continuous provincial success it wouldn't be long before an All-Ireland was forthcoming.

Dublin have always been a beast in Leinster and then what changed is Ulster got it's act together, massive investment went into development aided by grants from the UK. Armagh and Tyrone been the main visionaries and benefactors and they dominated but slowly Monaghan and Donegal started to follow this template and now you have a really competitive province that is driving standards within.

Dublin looked at this model of development, put a plan in place and got funding from the Government and funding from the GAA. Ally all this together including playing 2/3 games at home, a massive population and critically a football culture second only to Kerry and you have not just a beast but a monster. They have set standards beyond what is capable for a Meath or a Kildare, outside of this Donegal, Mayo and Kerry are spending millions to stay in touch, not surpass but stay in touch.

Transport Dublin to any other province where the same conditions apply, all games in Croke Park and they would swallow up that province as well and everyone in Leinster will patronise you and tell you to look at your own county raise your own standards, look for investment, follow Dublin's plan but you know what they won't give a shit because Dublin is not there problem.

And before I get pillared by the usual suspects this isn't a go at Dublin and maybe it is just cyclical but no where I can I see that cycle ending.

DB, fair enough comments.

Where thought does this excuse the abysmal performance from Kildare yesterday? They were playing Westmeath, a county with a way smaller population and fewer resources. I won't even mention Clare.

Work with a few Kildare guys in work and to say they are Dublin obsessed is an understatement. Very little comment from them about Kildare itself, but plenty about Dublin. Very unhealthy and imo anyway holding Kildare back no end.

Kildare as a county has underachieved for decades now. Not all Dublin' s fault.

Absolutely and I don't disagree, Kildare have their own problems, we neglected our under-age, we went 18 years without reaching a Leinster minor final but have now reached 4 of the last seven including regularly beating Dublin. Yesterday was a reflection of that neglect. Transitioning promising minor to competent senior is not going well for us, Cork 2012 was a watershed but in typical GAA style we imploded, a knive of long knives ensued followed by two years of wastefulness and our development was not only stunted but has gone back at a rate of knots. The majority of our players in the laters 20s early 30s bracket look burnt out (Leper, Bolton, Smith, the O'Flahertys ) and this should be the leadership group driving standards but if they are not doing it on the pitch players will not follow so now on top of our problems we have leaderships issues. That was never more evident than yesterday, our last attack had our captain our captain foul the ball cheaply on the ground. It's absolutely soul destroying watching what you know are good footballers playing with such fear.

Yes I agree it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and we do put Dublin on a pedestal, Tom Cribben more less stated all week they don't enter any thoughts of beating Dublin.  But this shadow over every county in Leinster, is everywhere it's in the papers, it's on TV it's on the radio, Meath were beaten before they even entered the pitch yesterday, it was like Gavin set Dublin a target let's win this game without scoring goals, it was like they were keeping their powder dry for a Kerry or a Mayo later on. They treated Meath like a training excercise.

So optimism and excitement has been replaced by realism, a promising Kildare minor is going into a culture of heavy defeats, low confidence, poor performances, slaughtered by pudits and forum experts for not being Dublin and you can replace Kildare there with any other county in Leinster. The contrast to a promising Dublin minor is of course the complete opposite, a winning culture, a celebrity culture a culture where you have everything looked after, I mean having a full-time dietician available out of hours to answer questions around food is as professional as it gets.

I was disappointed Dublin didn't get their new stadium at the Spawell because I thought this multi-million euro project might mean purses been tighten, a distraction for their county and perhaps a chance for the gap to be reduced. They are the sad things that many are clinging onto.

In 2003 60k turned up to watch Kildare v Laois in the Leinster final, now you would be lucky to get 600.

As said by others DB, fair enough. But leaving aside all the monetary arguments, Dublin football was at a very low ebb between 95 and 2005 (except for 2002). The organisation and unity within the county board following on from that was key. I just think that if county boards forgot about politics and all pulled in one direction, great things can be accomplished.

Dublin are not invincible - I think our full back line is incredibly vulnerable without Rory and Philly isn't pulling up any trees this year. John small is no Jack mcCaffrey - we can be got out, but people have to be courageous about it.

[Dinny Breen]

Dublin football was at a very low ebb between 95 and 2005 (except for 2002)

But this was a normal pattern with Dublin football, they often had relative droughts 08-20, 24-32, 34-41, 42-55, 65-74, - the 70s was golden period 6 Leinster Titles, 4 more in the 80s, 4 more in the 90s back to a drought 95-2002.

Their natural resources always ensure Dublin came through these droughts, Dublin's culture is after all only second to Kerry. Dublin though looked north and saw a model that could be copied and in fairness no-one could have envisaged the results of a sound development model been placed on top of Dublin's already competitive advantages. Every Leinster title bar 1 since 2005 and they only lost to Meath in 2010 due to the concession of 5 goals and some of those were dubious in the least.

Every county goes through cycles but Leinster counties that are going through a rebuilding process like Kildare and Meath find they can't find any oxygen and can't come through it they are been suffocated by Dublin. There is in the history of Leinster never been a cycle like it and it's not organic, every county has been complicit, everyone saw the money generated by Dublin nobody saw the future nobody shouted stop.

[Jinxy]

What sort of car would Kildare be?

[Dinny Breen]

What sort of car would Kildare be?

At the moment we are a clapped out horsebox.

[Donnellys Hollow]

What sort of car would Kildare be?

[Canalman]

Dublin football was at a very low ebb between 95 and 2005 (except for 2002)

But this was a normal pattern with Dublin football, they often had relative droughts 08-20, 24-32, 34-41, 42-55, 65-74, - the 70s was golden period 6 Leinster Titles, 4 more in the 80s, 4 more in the 90s back to a drought 95-2002.

Their natural resources always ensure Dublin came through these droughts, Dublin's culture is after all only second to Kerry. Dublin though looked north and saw a model that could be copied and in fairness no-one could have envisaged the results of a sound development model been placed on top of Dublin's already competitive advantages. Every Leinster title bar 1 since 2005 and they only lost to Meath in 2010 due to the concession of 5 goals and some of those were dubious in the least.

Every county goes through cycles but Leinster counties that are going through a rebuilding process like Kildare and Meath find they can't find any oxygen and can't come through it they are been suffocated by Dublin. There is in the history of Leinster never been a cycle like it and it's not organic, every county has been complicit, everyone saw the money generated by Dublin nobody saw the future nobody shouted stop.

Except of course Tyrone twice, Kerry twice, Mayo twice, Donegal once, Cork once all when they beat Dublin in the championship.

Elephant in the parlour here is imo anyway, that by and large no Leinster county would have won any of the other 3 provincial championships in the last decade or so . Wexford and McGeeney's Kildare might have snook one I admit. Meath obviously as well .

Only in the last 3 or 4 seasons Dublin have pulled away big time from the rest of Leinster.

[High Fielder]

It's a dying sport. Plain and simple. It is anti democratic and it sunbathes on a few weekends between August and September. The rest of it is largely unimportant. No other sport exists or is set up in this way. The rest of the Leinster teams have no place on the same pitch as Dublin, so why they are subjected to this humiliation is beyond me. It might be great sport for Dublin fans, but it is expensive and pointless for the rest of us. Let whoever wants go and form some Champions League type format and leave the rest of us to have a bit of competition and sport. The last 15 mins of yesterday's match was soul destroying. There is no way you can tell me that is even sport.