Memories of Hillsborough

[muppet]

I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.

very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?

I think it does a bit. We are used to this from the British, as colonial power we have had bloody Sunday and the like, but to do it to their own is a bit surprising.

I don't think so.

It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.

If you read the excellent http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Barbados-Ethnic-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870 it becomes obvious (to me at least) that they didn't care whether they sent Irish, Scots, Welsh or even English slaves (the latter usually taken from prisons). What they had in common was that those sent to The Caribbean as slaves were all beneath the important people.

To me this is a major theme of Hillsborough.

[armaghniac]

It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.

Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.

[ashman]

The story here is not of British establishment protecting itself but the greater issue of how institutions seek to cover up wrongdoing .  This has happened in this state , America, the Catholic Church , the republican movement .

The need to protect the institution trumps the truth.

[seafoid]

I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.

very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?

I think it does a bit. We are used to this from the British, as colonial power we have had bloody Sunday and the like, but to do it to their own is a bit surprising.

The miners got it as well. The British state will shaft anyone.

[easytiger95]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

[muppet]

It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.

Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.

That is precisely the point.

They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.

It is all about class to them.

[seafoid]

It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.

Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.

That is precisely the point.

They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.

It is all about class to them.

who is they, Muppet? Ordinary English people do not view Irish people as lower class, in my experience 

[muppet]

It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.

Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.

That is precisely the point.

They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.

It is all about class to them.

who is they, Muppet? Ordinary English people do not view Irish people as lower class, in my experience

Many do in my experience, but that is not what I was getting at.

The point was someone was surprised that they shafted their own regarding Hillsborough, i.e. football supporters from the North. That doesn't surprise me in the least as the wealth in England would view those supporters as way beneath them, just as they did the miners. They certainly shafted the Irish, but they were not averse to shafting their own lower classes too.

Thus I am making the argument, certainly for those in power, it was all about class, social status, or rank in Britain.

[Billys Boots]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day. 

[trueblue1234]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day.

While it would be nice for him to come out and accept the findings, we all know what would actually happen, He would ignored the findings and continue to dispute what happened. So I think it's less said the better for him. I get visions of the candyman, and that calling him out 3 times and he'll suddenly appear on the thread. And that's not something I particular want. I'd leave him to it, unless he has the good grace to admit where he was wrong.

[laoislad]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day.

While it would be nice for him to come out and accept the findings, we all know what would actually happen, He would ignored the findings and continue to dispute what happened. So I think it's less said the better for him. I get visions of the candyman, and that calling him out 3 times and he'll suddenly appear on the thread. And that's not something I particular want. I'd leave him to it, unless he has the good grace to admit where he was wrong.

That's exactly what he did on the Liverpool thread yesterday evening.

[muppet]

'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.'

Daniel Patrick Moynihan: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1745-everyone-is-entitled-to-his-own-opinion-but-not-to

[Armamike]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

Well said. Some individuals aren't worth conversing with. Best to stay well clear and leave the crackpots and fantasists to themselves.   

[Tony Baloney]

Keep a box of hankies handy  . Some of this can't be unseen. Page 1 of 39 was enough for me. How those coppers slept at night is beyond me when you see the carnage.

f**king hell a poxy 3" wide gate to let people out of the pens onto the pitch.  .

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/hillsborough-disaster?sort=mostpopular&excludenudity=true&mediatype=photography&phrase=hillsborough%20disaster&family=editorial

[5 Sams]

I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.

Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.

Well said. Some individuals aren't worth conversing with. Best to stay well clear and leave the crackpots and fantasists to themselves.   

I find it hard to believe that some of the respected posters on here seem to be actually friendly with this vile individual.