Mayo v Down NFL Division 1

[moysider]

Looks like Ger Caff. gone for this one. McLoughlin probably still out as well.
Thought I saw Keane on the bench the last day. He might be in the running for fb or they might go with Cunniffe, Barrett and Harrison?
Vaughan seems to be in limbo a bit with this new management. Was his substitution the last day injury or tactical I wonder?
Doc a bit out of sorts as well with form but maybe management happy with his general workrate and stuff he does when not on the ball?
If Higgins is able to play a bit, where will he be played?

[From the Bunker]

Must be great for the Dubs not having to worry about players studing/working in Dublin.  Another advantage - Is there anything going against the present Dublin set-up? They seem to have all the Ace cards!

Dublin players circumstances don't have anything to do with Mayo trying to claim some sort of special dispensation for their Spring form, due to having so many players living in Dublin. Half the counties in Ireland can say the very same thing. Mayo's players are no way different to a lad from Donegal or Sligo or Tipp, who are also having to make a long trek home to train.

Yeah agreed, just an idle comment!

[Captain Obvious]

I can t remember Down ever being at such a low ebb before. It should be a banker but you never know.
Mayo have struggled so far to convert possession into scores. Because of this the other team always have a chance. Roscommon had about 20% possession and 10 decent minutes the last day and only lost by 4 and nearly got closer. It's just not adding up for Mayo. We have forwards that can finish but our use of possession is very poor and we have no top class kick passer in the middle third of the pitch. Likes of Freeman, O Connor and Regan will do damage if they get good ball.
Mayo need to make sure of a win here and probably will go about it like they did in The Hyde. Basically throw everything at it and hope enough sticks to get over the line. If we survive there will be enough long evenings for fine tuning before we go to London.

Selection will be interesting. I expect Freeman to start again. I also thought Patrick Durkan added a lot.

I think it tells you Mayo lack scoring forwards from play. Why were Mayo in a relegation battle to begin with, strength in depth not as good as original thought?

We were in a relegation battle because of our inability to make the most of possession. It is my belief that if the approach work is right the scores will come. Since the beginning of the league we have shown little respect for possession. Loose and lazy passes, poor option taking and woeful attempts to kick pass to the inside forwards. You could put McManus, Gooch and Brogan in the Mayo team and they would look like shite with the ball they would get.
Plenty of strength in depth. As usual with us it is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing.

I have seen plenty of Mayo on television this spring and it was the same theme in each game, Mayo creating more scoring opportunities from play than scores, the type of chances McManus, Gooch and Brogan would have converted far easier than the Mayo forwards that played in those games.

For a team that has been regularly getting to All Ireland semi finals it shouldn't take much tactics to avoid a relegation battle.

[macdanger2]

Yep I agree with ya moy re kick passing is not of good quality into ff line , is there anything to be lost by bringing Cillian out to the 40 to fill a role of distribution in.

I'm sure it s something they will look at. Play with just the 2 inside.

I think part of the problem is that our players always take a solo or two when they receive the ball instead of looking up immediately for the kickpass. That and the timing / angles of the runs inside means there are no options when they do look up imo

[moysider]

I can t remember Down ever being at such a low ebb before. It should be a banker but you never know.
Mayo have struggled so far to convert possession into scores. Because of this the other team always have a chance. Roscommon had about 20% possession and 10 decent minutes the last day and only lost by 4 and nearly got closer. It's just not adding up for Mayo. We have forwards that can finish but our use of possession is very poor and we have no top class kick passer in the middle third of the pitch. Likes of Freeman, O Connor and Regan will do damage if they get good ball.
Mayo need to make sure of a win here and probably will go about it like they did in The Hyde. Basically throw everything at it and hope enough sticks to get over the line. If we survive there will be enough long evenings for fine tuning before we go to London.

Selection will be interesting. I expect Freeman to start again. I also thought Patrick Durkan added a lot.

I think it tells you Mayo lack scoring forwards from play. Why were Mayo in a relegation battle to begin with, strength in depth not as good as original thought?

We were in a relegation battle because of our inability to make the most of possession. It is my belief that if the approach work is right the scores will come. Since the beginning of the league we have shown little respect for possession. Loose and lazy passes, poor option taking and woeful attempts to kick pass to the inside forwards. You could put McManus, Gooch and Brogan in the Mayo team and they would look like shite with the ball they would get.
Plenty of strength in depth. As usual with us it is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing.

I have seen plenty of Mayo on television this spring and it was the same theme in each game, Mayo creating more scoring opportunities from play than scores, the type of chances McManus, Gooch and Brogan would have converted far easier than the Mayo forwards that played in those games.

For a team that has been regularly getting to All Ireland semi finals it shouldn't take much tactics to avoid a relegation battle.

Tyrone and Donegal have both been relegated in recent years. All it takes is a few games to go against ye in a league of 7 games.
It s not like we were being hammered in those games we lost - apart from the opening round in Cork.

You will find that opportunities we missed were forced and hurried at times. If the approach work is fluid you score with the finisher in space. Poor passing and stuff ended up with rushed attempts and misses.
McManus did not score from play against us. He got no good opportunities. If he was in the Mayo team that would be his lot, week end, week out this Spring.

[Captain Obvious]

I can t remember Down ever being at such a low ebb before. It should be a banker but you never know.
Mayo have struggled so far to convert possession into scores. Because of this the other team always have a chance. Roscommon had about 20% possession and 10 decent minutes the last day and only lost by 4 and nearly got closer. It's just not adding up for Mayo. We have forwards that can finish but our use of possession is very poor and we have no top class kick passer in the middle third of the pitch. Likes of Freeman, O Connor and Regan will do damage if they get good ball.
Mayo need to make sure of a win here and probably will go about it like they did in The Hyde. Basically throw everything at it and hope enough sticks to get over the line. If we survive there will be enough long evenings for fine tuning before we go to London.

Selection will be interesting. I expect Freeman to start again. I also thought Patrick Durkan added a lot.

I think it tells you Mayo lack scoring forwards from play. Why were Mayo in a relegation battle to begin with, strength in depth not as good as original thought?

We were in a relegation battle because of our inability to make the most of possession. It is my belief that if the approach work is right the scores will come. Since the beginning of the league we have shown little respect for possession. Loose and lazy passes, poor option taking and woeful attempts to kick pass to the inside forwards. You could put McManus, Gooch and Brogan in the Mayo team and they would look like shite with the ball they would get.
Plenty of strength in depth. As usual with us it is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing.

I have seen plenty of Mayo on television this spring and it was the same theme in each game, Mayo creating more scoring opportunities from play than scores, the type of chances McManus, Gooch and Brogan would have converted far easier than the Mayo forwards that played in those games.

For a team that has been regularly getting to All Ireland semi finals it shouldn't take much tactics to avoid a relegation battle.

Tyrone and Donegal have both been relegated in recent years. All it takes is a few games to go against ye in a league of 7 games.
It s not like we were being hammered in those games we lost - apart from the opening round in Cork.

You will find that opportunities we missed were forced and hurried at times. If the approach work is fluid you score with the finisher in space. Poor passing and stuff ended up with rushed attempts and misses.
McManus did not score from play against us. He got no good opportunities. If he was in the Mayo team that would be his lot, week end, week out this Spring.

Donegal would be the first to admit they don't have strength in depth and need their strongest fifteen or close to it to compete on both fronts and Mickey Harte is just building another Tyrone panel to do that now. We will have to agree to disagree on your forwards.

[moysider]

I can t remember Down ever being at such a low ebb before. It should be a banker but you never know.
Mayo have struggled so far to convert possession into scores. Because of this the other team always have a chance. Roscommon had about 20% possession and 10 decent minutes the last day and only lost by 4 and nearly got closer. It's just not adding up for Mayo. We have forwards that can finish but our use of possession is very poor and we have no top class kick passer in the middle third of the pitch. Likes of Freeman, O Connor and Regan will do damage if they get good ball.
Mayo need to make sure of a win here and probably will go about it like they did in The Hyde. Basically throw everything at it and hope enough sticks to get over the line. If we survive there will be enough long evenings for fine tuning before we go to London.

Selection will be interesting. I expect Freeman to start again. I also thought Patrick Durkan added a lot.

I think it tells you Mayo lack scoring forwards from play. Why were Mayo in a relegation battle to begin with, strength in depth not as good as original thought?

We were in a relegation battle because of our inability to make the most of possession. It is my belief that if the approach work is right the scores will come. Since the beginning of the league we have shown little respect for possession. Loose and lazy passes, poor option taking and woeful attempts to kick pass to the inside forwards. You could put McManus, Gooch and Brogan in the Mayo team and they would look like shite with the ball they would get.
Plenty of strength in depth. As usual with us it is a tactical thing rather than a personnel thing.

I have seen plenty of Mayo on television this spring and it was the same theme in each game, Mayo creating more scoring opportunities from play than scores, the type of chances McManus, Gooch and Brogan would have converted far easier than the Mayo forwards that played in those games.

For a team that has been regularly getting to All Ireland semi finals it shouldn't take much tactics to avoid a relegation battle.

Tyrone and Donegal have both been relegated in recent years. All it takes is a few games to go against ye in a league of 7 games.
It s not like we were being hammered in those games we lost - apart from the opening round in Cork.

You will find that opportunities we missed were forced and hurried at times. If the approach work is fluid you score with the finisher in space. Poor passing and stuff ended up with rushed attempts and misses.
McManus did not score from play against us. He got no good opportunities. If he was in the Mayo team that would be his lot, week end, week out this Spring.

Donegal would be the first to admit they don't have strength in depth and need their strongest fifteen or close to it to compete on both fronts and Mickey Harte is just building another Tyrone panel to do that now. We will have to agree to disagree on your forwards.

I know. You could also pick holes about our vulnerability at the back. So how do we manage to compete at all at the level we do?
In the last 30+ years I don't think any other county has been consistently up there without winning an AI. That's several generations as regards players. Yet the old chestnuts about forwards are thrown out to explain it all away.
It doesn't add up.
Several years ago Kevin McStay said Mayo needed a coach rather than manager. More recently he pointed out that we don t respect possession enough.
I'd go along with that. As a Mayoman I find us frustrating in the extreme to watch. Maybe it's our culture. We have had so many good teams underage, county and club but ridiculous product. We managed to lose 3 club finals this year alone.
We have never had anybody like an O Dywer, Heffernan, McGuiness or Harte to put a stamp on things. None of our good club teams had a manager that you could take a step up.  Horan and Maughan made us very competitive but had blind spots when it counted. Horan dismissed Parsons for about 3 of his 4 years and did not entertain Regan at all. And that is just selection - not tactics.
Remains to be seen if Rochford can get it right. I m more than hopeful he can.

[Hound]

Yep I agree with ya moy re kick passing is not of good quality into ff line , is there anything to be lost by bringing Cillian out to the 40 to fill a role of distribution in.

But you need reliable score-takers closer to goal.

Diarmuid O'Connor has been super at wing forward, but I was wondering would he be even better closer to goal?

Put the two brothers as a 2 man full forward line, then any clean ball they get will be 80% likely to be put over the bar? (I know Regan was very good v Rossies, but assuming for the moment he's not quite ready to be depended on, so leaving in reserve for championship)

Orthodox full back line and midfield. AOS as a third midfielder but with freedom to roam and little in the way of defensive duties.

That leaves 6 others who are all half back type players who do loads of work funnelling back and forward as play dictates(Keegan, Boyle, Durkan, Higgins, O'Loughlin, 1 other). Very important to identify the pass foot passers of the middle 9, and the best 2 or 3 should be delivering 90% of the balls into the brothers.

That would be a team that's not carrying any weak links (and Mayo usually have 1, and more often 2, players who are being carried in the forwards in the hope, rather than expectation, that today will be a good day)

[muppet]

The amount of Mayo lads studying/working in Dublin has a baring on how Mayo get on during the early stages of the league. Collective sessions are at a minimum this time of the year.

Sure you can say that about half the country. Anyway, Mayo have the longest current stint in Division one. It's something like 15 years and counting. So the amount of lads living/working in Dublin, can't be that harmful to their Spring form.

20 years I think.

For most of them we hit the ground running in the first few league games. We always seemed to be able to get points off Kerry handy if we played them first, even in Tralee. But this year we were behind the others because of the players heave against management. And we are very dependant on 3 or 4 keys players. Cillian is obviously one of them and has only just returned.

Regarding playing a 2 man FF line, whoever they are they must be quick. I like the look of Regan in that regard. We could play Cillian behind them. I think AOXI needs to be further out the field. He is well able to kick pass, but is inclined not to send it in quickly. A 2 man FF line would need very quick ball.

When the inevitable blankets appear we need our running game as an option. Despite Roscelona saying the pitch didn't suit their light players, it certainly didn't suit our running game. I like the idea of having Keegan and Durcan as wing backs with license to run just like the Dubs wing backs. We need Boyler or someone in the centre to stay put, maybe with an O'Shea detailed to hang around as well when the lads go forward.

Cafferkey is another of our key players along with Higgins. We need them flying fit come the summer. The defence isn't the same without either of them.

[Mclf]

Bloody hell but do ye Mayo folk ever learn, after Regan scoring an illegal goal he is suddenly the greatest thing ever that will lead ye to Sam, yere levels of desperation at this stage are getting to a new low. Mayo will never win an all ireland with the limited players they have, that is a fact.

[muppet]

Bloody hell but do ye Mayo folk ever learn, after Regan scoring an illegal goal he is suddenly the greatest thing ever that will lead ye to Sam, yere levels of desperation at this stage are getting to a new low. Mayo will never win an all ireland with the limited players they have, that is a fact.

Never mind 'Mayo folk' learning, you might go and learn what a 'fact' is.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Am I right in thinking Mayo will qualify for the semis should Kerry beat Cork and Monaghan beat Donegal? Mayo are likely to have the best scoring difference (after trouncing Down) of the teams on 6 points - in this case Cork are most likely to go down.

It's just I was looking for odds on Mayo to win Div 1 as a decent outside bet but I couldn't find odds for them.

In this scenario the final table would look like:

1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Roscommon
4. Mayo
5. Donegal
6. Monaghan
7. Cork
8. Down

I do however think Cork (need at least a point to survive) will beat Kerry  (nothing to play for) quite comfortably.

[highorlow]

I'm sure it s something they will look at. Play with just the 2 inside.

The Moran and Morrison way.

[Hound]

Regarding playing a 2 man FF line, whoever they are they must be quick.

That's a big misconception.

They must be able to kick the ball over the bar.
Pace is an added bonus, but speed of thought, intelligence, is far more important than raw pace. Bernard Brogan was never the quickest, and you could say the same about a lot of other top forwards.

[muppet]

Regarding playing a 2 man FF line, whoever they are they must be quick.

That's a big misconception.

They must be able to kick the ball over the bar.
Pace is an added bonus, but speed of thought, intelligence, is far more important than raw pace. Bernard Brogan was never the quickest, and you could say the same about a lot of other top forwards.

It was more a comment on our personnel. Sure you can play a 2 man FF line without pace, but it is obviously a lot better if you have it.