Congress 2016

[westbound]

I disagree with almost all the dissenters about the mark between 45's - I saw this in the National League in 2010. I thought it worked great. Then it was dropped without fair consideration. Personally I thought it speeded up games.

My theory/observations on the mark in 2010:
1. Currently if a player catches and is fouled it is a free and the game stops anyway (so no change there)
2. Currently if a player catches and is then swarmed the momentum is lost and the play is slowed down
3. With the mark if a catch is made the free is automatically awarded. The player can take it quick so no need to stop play at all. The net effect is really just making opposition players clear away (thus no swarming and slowing down play)
4. If the player is swarmed and prevented from taking it quick then the free is automatically brought forward to what will be then a likely point-scoring position.
5. The whole advantage of the mark is to have the ball in hand with a  a clear opportunity to kick pass fast into teh forwards

Perhaps to ensure its aim some supplemental rule could be added:
If the player accepts the free then he must only kick pass forward, not back

You may not score from a marked free kick

You can score from a mark directly but only if the guy claiming the catch takes the kick. So basically there is one player in Ireland who with any regularity is capable of catching a ball clean in a crowded midfield and kicking it over the bar from beyond 45m. And even Bryan Sheehan isn't that great at clean catching.

The mark worked in the NFL in 2010, the game was better to watch, but as I said above, if teams simply use it to play the ball backwards it will become a horrible scourge.

But currently you have a crowded midfield: Lets say Dublin v Mayo. If a Dublin midfielder catches the ball his teammates in the area must remain there because he is being swarmed by Mayo players and may lose possession. So the other Dublin players must remain to tackle the Mayo player if he turns the ball over.

With the mark: The Dublin player catches clean. All other Dublin players in the midfield area can now move away instantly (hopefully forward), and forwards can start running because they know the possession is assured and can not be taken away and also that their player will have a free space to place a pass. In addition they know they have to sprint to their new positions because their midfielder has only 3-4 seconds to deliver the ball.

Surely this is better than midfield scrums that we see now, with referees guessing which way to award a free?

I agree.
It isn't a fix all solution to stop every goalkeeping taking short kick outs, but at least there is now more of an incentive to kick long to midfield.

It has always and ever been the case that teams without good fielders in midfield would take short kick outs and that wont change. But at least now the teams with good fielders will be rewarded if they kick long.

[AZOffaly]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

Jesus lads you'd be doing well to score directly from a mark!!

Just outside the 45m line, free kick, ball in hand? There's quite a few lads would fancy that.

[Rossfan]

When do the changes take effect?

does anyone know when the changes come in?

2016 Championship I think. Also, wasn't the mark trialled a few years ago, 2013 I think?

It's coming in  in Ulster on 1st May but 1/1/17 for the rest.
So when does it come in for clubs?
Just for the championship?
or from the start of this years club season?

[general_lee]

I disagree with almost all the dissenters about the mark between 45's - I saw this in the National League in 2010. I thought it worked great. Then it was dropped without fair consideration. Personally I thought it speeded up games.

My theory/observations on the mark in 2010:
1. Currently if a player catches and is fouled it is a free and the game stops anyway (so no change there)
2. Currently if a player catches and is then swarmed the momentum is lost and the play is slowed down
3. With the mark if a catch is made the free is automatically awarded. The player can take it quick so no need to stop play at all. The net effect is really just making opposition players clear away (thus no swarming and slowing down play)
4. If the player is swarmed and prevented from taking it quick then the free is automatically brought forward to what will be then a likely point-scoring position.
5. The whole advantage of the mark is to have the ball in hand with a  a clear opportunity to kick pass fast into teh forwards

Perhaps to ensure its aim some supplemental rule could be added:
If the player accepts the free then he must only kick pass forward, not back

You may not score from a marked free kick

You can score from a mark directly but only if the guy claiming the catch takes the kick. So basically there is one player in Ireland who with any regularity is capable of catching a ball clean in a crowded midfield and kicking it over the bar from beyond 45m. And even Bryan Sheehan isn't that great at clean catching.

The mark worked in the NFL in 2010, the game was better to watch, but as I said above, if teams simply use it to play the ball backwards it will become a horrible scourge.

But currently you have a crowded midfield: Lets say Dublin v Mayo. If a Dublin midfielder catches the ball his teammates in the area must remain there because he is being swarmed by Mayo players and may lose possession. So the other Dublin players must remain to tackle the Mayo player if he turns the ball over.

With the mark: The Dublin player catches clean. All other Dublin players in the midfield area can now move away instantly (hopefully forward), and forwards can start running because they know the possession is assured and can not be taken away and also that their player will have a free space to place a pass. In addition they know they have to sprint to their new positions because their midfielder has only 3-4 seconds to deliver the ball.

Surely this is better than midfield scrums that we see now, with referees guessing which way to award a free?

I agree.
It isn't a fix all solution to stop every goalkeeping taking short kick outs, but at least there is now more of an incentive to kick long to midfield.

It has always and ever been the case that teams without good fielders in midfield would take short kick outs and that wont change. But at least now the teams with good fielders will be rewarded if they kick long.

and what will the other team do on their kick outs?

[BennyHarp]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

The reality is though, there will be very few scores from marked free kicks.The will all be at least 45m out and the kicker will only have 5 seconds to take the kick

Yes, but potentially a guy has clean possession, 45m out with 5 seconds to decide what to do with it. That's potentially a dangerous enough scenario to emerge from your own kick out. Teams won't risk it as the risk to kicking long is now greater than before.

The only time this mark will work is when a mobile half forward / midfielder runs onto a precision chest high kick out. I would suggest it will have little impact on the amount of high catches that take place in an average game. I think it will become the biggest red herring in the rule book since they tried to enforce the closed hand fist pass a few years ago.

[Main Street]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

The reality is though, there will be very few scores from marked free kicks.The will all be at least 45m out and the kicker will only have 5 seconds to take the kick

Yes, but potentially a guy has clean possession, 45m out with 5 seconds to decide what to do with it. That's a dangerous enough scenario to emerge from your own kick out.

The only time this mark will work is when a mobile half forward / midfielder runs onto a precision chest high kick out. I would suggest it will have little impact on the amount of high catches that take place in an average game. I think it will become the biggest red herring in the rule book since they tried to enforce the closed hand fist pass a few years ago.

The well struck kick out, taken say from the 13m line,  is caught on the 65m - 70m. 
Player with the mark decides to take 4 huge leaps and makes 5m with each leap and ends up on the 45m line, from where he kick the ball over the bar. That would be a sight to behold, Cuchulain like.

Who knows how it might play out,  for example Down v Kerry  James O'Donoghue had taken 10 steps with the ball before Marty Duffy could count to 4.

[longballin]

The blame for the changes lie with the likes of Jimmy McGuinnes and Mickey Harte who have ruined Gaelic football at county level as a spectacle... the other clowns then copied them

[BennyHarp]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

The reality is though, there will be very few scores from marked free kicks.The will all be at least 45m out and the kicker will only have 5 seconds to take the kick

Yes, but potentially a guy has clean possession, 45m out with 5 seconds to decide what to do with it. That's a dangerous enough scenario to emerge from your own kick out.

The only time this mark will work is when a mobile half forward / midfielder runs onto a precision chest high kick out. I would suggest it will have little impact on the amount of high catches that take place in an average game. I think it will become the biggest red herring in the rule book since they tried to enforce the closed hand fist pass a few years ago.

The well struck kick out, taken say from the 13m line,  is caught on the 65m - 70m. 
Player with the mark decides to take 4 huge leaps and makes 5m with each leap and ends up on the 45m line, from where he kick the ball over the bar. That would be a sight to behold, Cuchulain like.

Who knows how it might play out,  for example Down v Kerry  James O'Donoghue had taken 10 steps with the ball before Marty Duffy could count to 4.

Ok fair enough! So the player has possession 55-60 yards out and has an uncontested 5 seconds to pick a pass. I'd still say that's dangerous enough and in an era where most teams are fairly risk adverse, I cant imagine too many balls dropping high onto the 65m line! Like I said, the only use of this will be directed kick outs to chest - not high catches.

[Plastic Paddy]

It has to be decided by central Council as to when to impement the mark. i would say 2017

[Esmarelda]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

The reality is though, there will be very few scores from marked free kicks.The will all be at least 45m out and the kicker will only have 5 seconds to take the kick

Yes, but potentially a guy has clean possession, 45m out with 5 seconds to decide what to do with it. That's a dangerous enough scenario to emerge from your own kick out.

The only time this mark will work is when a mobile half forward / midfielder runs onto a precision chest high kick out. I would suggest it will have little impact on the amount of high catches that take place in an average game. I think it will become the biggest red herring in the rule book since they tried to enforce the closed hand fist pass a few years ago.

The well struck kick out, taken say from the 13m line,  is caught on the 65m - 70m. 
Player with the mark decides to take 4 huge leaps and makes 5m with each leap and ends up on the 45m line, from where he kick the ball over the bar. That would be a sight to behold, Cuchulain like.

Who knows how it might play out,  for example Down v Kerry  James O'Donoghue had taken 10 steps with the ball before Marty Duffy could count to 4.

Ok fair enough! So the player has possession 55-60 yards out and has an uncontested 5 seconds to pick a pass. I'd still say that's dangerous enough and in an era where most teams are fairly risk adverse, I cant imagine too many balls dropping high onto the 65m line! Like I said, the only use of this will be directed kick outs to chest - not high catches.

Where are you getting the five seconds from?

[BennyHarp]

Confusion here as I heard Congress reporters say over the weekend that you cannot score,  but you're right looking at that wording. Maybe I dreamt it but I thought I heard Dara O'Se say the same.

The reality is though, there will be very few scores from marked free kicks.The will all be at least 45m out and the kicker will only have 5 seconds to take the kick

Yes, but potentially a guy has clean possession, 45m out with 5 seconds to decide what to do with it. That's a dangerous enough scenario to emerge from your own kick out.

The only time this mark will work is when a mobile half forward / midfielder runs onto a precision chest high kick out. I would suggest it will have little impact on the amount of high catches that take place in an average game. I think it will become the biggest red herring in the rule book since they tried to enforce the closed hand fist pass a few years ago.

The well struck kick out, taken say from the 13m line,  is caught on the 65m - 70m. 
Player with the mark decides to take 4 huge leaps and makes 5m with each leap and ends up on the 45m line, from where he kick the ball over the bar. That would be a sight to behold, Cuchulain like.

Who knows how it might play out,  for example Down v Kerry  James O'Donoghue had taken 10 steps with the ball before Marty Duffy could count to 4.

Ok fair enough! So the player has possession 55-60 yards out and has an uncontested 5 seconds to pick a pass. I'd still say that's dangerous enough and in an era where most teams are fairly risk adverse, I cant imagine too many balls dropping high onto the 65m line! Like I said, the only use of this will be directed kick outs to chest - not high catches.

Where are you getting the five seconds from?

I'm going by the rule posted by someone a few pages back;

(a)   A Free Kick
The player shall signify to the Referee that he is availing of and then take the free kick himself from the hand from the point where he was awarded the 'Mark'.   
Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark' the Referee will allow up to five seconds for the player to take the kick.   If the player delays longer than five seconds the Referee will cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.
Once the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the opposing players must retreat 10m to allow the player space to take the kick.   If an opposition player deliberately blocks or attempts to block the kick within 10m, or if an opposition player impedes the player while he is taking the kick, the Referee shall penalise the opposition by bringing the ball forward 13m.
If the Referee determines that the player who makes the 'Mark' has been injured in the process and is unable to take the kick, the Referee shall direct the Player's nearest team mate to take the kick but he may not score directly from the kick.

[blewuporstuffed]

I have to say, I have been disappointed with congress this year.
I wouldn't have been for the mark (at least without a proper trial) but i suppose we will just have to wait and see how that works.
The biggest disappointment though is not moving the AI finals forward and not getting rid of replays.
These are the two things that could have helped club football and club fixtures hugely and somehow we have decided not to do it.

I cant really understand the logic for defeating either motion.   

[PAULD123]

Five seconds is actually quite  along time. If you are standing with the ball looking around you. But I guess the time allowed includes teh first second or two for the players around to clear away from the marker. So in reality from the point where the guy is actually in a position to take a kick to the point where it is actually kicked will be more like 2-3 seconds.

[blewuporstuffed]

Five seconds is actually quite  along time. If you are standing with the ball looking around you. But I guess the time allowed includes teh first second or two for the players around to clear away from the marker. So in reality from the point where the guy is actually in a position to take a kick to the point where it is actually kicked will be more like 2-3 seconds.

My issue would be that if you dont use it in 5 seconds it isa  hop ball, which i think is harsh.
It would have been better if you havent used it in 5 seconds the referee calls play on, and youa re fair game to be tackled again, as is the rule in the AFL

[screenexile]

Five seconds is actually quite  along time. If you are standing with the ball looking around you. But I guess the time allowed includes teh first second or two for the players around to clear away from the marker. So in reality from the point where the guy is actually in a position to take a kick to the point where it is actually kicked will be more like 2-3 seconds.

My issue would be that if you dont use it in 5 seconds it isa  hop ball, which i think is harsh.
It would have been better if you havent used it in 5 seconds the referee calls play on, and youa re fair game to be tackled again, as is the rule in the AFL

Very good point and it should have been done like that!