The Official 2016 Irish General Election thread

[highorlow]

You make it sound like the country is full of welfare cheats.

Mikehunt, I don't know where you originate from but I'm from a relatively small town in the West and it's overrun by not what you would call welfare cheats but people who know how to abuse the system. I'd safely say this is the same in other small towns.

As for the "no work" argument that you might come back with, a father was on the tele from Slane, I think, the other night who has 4 adult children and says there is no work to be got for them in Slane. That's purely a defeatist attitude, Slane is a 40min journey from loads of work.

I think a lot of anger from people is that it's now not as easy to abuse the system as it was before.

I note from this morning the Fine Gael mantra has changed to "lets keep the economic recovery going".

[AZOffaly]

I actually think their mantra changed last week after that poll about people not feeling the recovery. Varadker was on Newstalk or RTE news, and he mentioned 'We need to bring the recovery into the home' or 'into everyone's home' at least 3 times. Then I heard another lad, maybe Coveney, saying the very same thing.

[highorlow]

When you say the country is full of welfare cheats what kind of percentages are you talking about? I hear there are numbers you can ring to tip off the authorities.

It's not quiet the same argument but it's close, the 40 to 45% of people who still have not paid water charges are effectively scrounging money from the people who have paid. Yet these same people have no problem giving money to corporate entities for their monthly phone bills and to pay for sky sports and head on sun holidays once a year.

[mikehunt]

You make it sound like the country is full of welfare cheats.

Mikehunt, I don't know where you originate from but I'm from a relatively small town in the West and it's overrun by not what you would call welfare cheats but people who know how to abuse the system. I'd safely say this is the same in other small towns.

As for the "no work" argument that you might come back with, a father was on the tele from Slane, I think, the other night who has 4 adult children and says there is no work to be got for them in Slane. That's purely a defeatist attitude, Slane is a 40min journey from loads of work.

I think a lot of anger from people is that it's now not as easy to abuse the system as it was before.

I note from this morning the Fine Gael mantra has changed to "lets keep the economic recovery going".

I'm curious as to why you think it's the poor you feel you are subsidising? You have U2, JP McManus and Dennis O Brien to name a few who are also "working the system". Denis O Brien for example was given a reduced rate on his loans. Ireland were borrowing at between 6% and 7% and were lending to O Brien at 1.5%. He was then given state contracts. Do you not think these amounts are more substantial than a few thousand working the welfare system? The collapse was the single biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.No wonder FG will get back in to power with the electorate we have. 82,000 jobs that are included in the numbers are slavebridge type jobs. Are these the ones 40 minutes outside Slane? If you are better off on the dole than working what would you do if you have a family to support?

[highorlow]

I'm curious as to why you think it's the poor you feel you are subsidising?

I admire your curiosity.

[highorlow]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-of-14-says-theyre-trapped-in-threebed-house-because-council-wouldnt-give-housing-to-adult-children-34471747.html

[muppet]

The cost of Social Protection is greater than the income tax take these days. VAT, Excise duty, the painfully low Corporation tax take and others have to pay for everything else.

I think all parties have their thinking on taxes arseways. The all want their grubby hands on it to reward their own personal voters. This is a legal form of corruption and they all engage in it.

Our tax system punishes success and hard work and reward idleness. This is patently crazy. The use of cliched terms like 'the most vulnerable', and 'progressive taxation', etc can't disguise the fact that the vast majority of our tax take is from income and thus punishes workers. The more successful and/or hard working you are, the more you are fleeced.

There is a class in society, though, whereby people are rewarded handsomely without doing any work. Unearned income, such as increases in property prices and inheritance is taboo territory for politicians and yet some select people can get very wealthy without having to do any work at all. Why do we allow there people to be rewarded so well?

For example, inheritance tax should be astronomical once it exceeds a certain threshold. The threshold should reflect say the cost of an average house. The same should apply to rising property prices. This is money made without doing any work and should be taxed to death. Part of the problem with the latter though is that it is now apparent most of our banks don't know how to make money from anything other than a rising property market (and thus benefit themselves from unearned income) and they leverage governments into doing everything they can to inflate the property market.

Rising property prices is a cost for everyone not on the gravy train, and a free lunch for those on it. We shouldn't reward such a system. Likewise inheritance is rewarding children or relatives of successful people, regardless of whether or not the recipient is of any value to society, or a hard worker, or successful themselves. For example, if one of our resident billionaires leaves all of his wealth to one person, why should our society tax hard working people in favour of the billionaire's anointed one?

I say all of the above as someone on the property gravy train and someone likely to get an inheritance. But I'd rather earn it than have it handed to me and I think our tax system should favour earned wealth over unearned wealth.

I know SF are proposing a wealth tax but they are way off to date with their proposal. They wanted a flat 5% on assets which would mean the State would own almost everything in 20 years. That is nothing like what I am talking about. As for FG they are proposing an increase in the inheritance tax threshold. That is also the complete opposite to what I am talking about.

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

[Hound]

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

While I agree that there is too much focus on increasing income tax and penalising the better paid, are you not falling into the trap that the only good tax is the one someone else has to pay?
You are not about to receive a big inheritance so they'd be the lads to get 

Are wealth taxes not double taxation? You pay your tax when you earn money, and you pay it again to keep it?

[muppet]

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

While I agree that there is too much focus on increasing income tax and penalising the better paid, are you not falling into the trap that the only good tax is the one someone else has to pay?
You are not about to receive a big inheritance so they'd be the lads to get 

Are wealth taxes not double taxation? You pay your tax when you earn money, and you pay it again to keep it?

I thought I addressed your questions in the post.

"I say all of the above as someone on the property gravy train and someone likely to get an inheritance."

Wealth tax is double taxation. I am not proposing a SF style wealth tax. A wealth tax means you pay as you earn and then pay again for simply owning the money or whatever you put it into. I am proposing a large tax on inheritance, which I didn't earn, or ever pay tax on, and a large tax on property price increases, which is double taxation. I earned money to buy my house and will pay no tax on the amount I paid. I will however (under my portal) pay a lot of tax for any increase in the value of the house, which is money I didn't pay tax on, and income I didn't work for.

[Esmarelda]

The cost of Social Protection is greater than the income tax take these days. VAT, Excise duty, the painfully low Corporation tax take and others have to pay for everything else.

I think all parties have their thinking on taxes arseways. The all want their grubby hands on it to reward their own personal voters. This is a legal form of corruption and they all engage in it.

Our tax system punishes success and hard work and reward idleness. This is patently crazy. The use of cliched terms like 'the most vulnerable', and 'progressive taxation', etc can't disguise the fact that the vast majority of our tax take is from income and thus punishes workers. The more successful and/or hard working you are, the more you are fleeced.

There is a class in society, though, whereby people are rewarded handsomely without doing any work. Unearned income, such as increases in property prices and inheritance is taboo territory for politicians and yet some select people can get very wealthy without having to do any work at all. Why do we allow there people to be rewarded so well?

For example, inheritance tax should be astronomical once it exceeds a certain threshold. The threshold should reflect say the cost of an average house. The same should apply to rising property prices. This is money made without doing any work and should be taxed to death. Part of the problem with the latter though is that it is now apparent most of our banks don't know how to make money from anything other than a rising property market (and thus benefit themselves from unearned income) and they leverage governments into doing everything they can to inflate the property market.

Rising property prices is a cost for everyone not on the gravy train, and a free lunch for those on it. We shouldn't reward such a system. Likewise inheritance is rewarding children or relatives of successful people, regardless of whether or not the recipient is of any value to society, or a hard worker, or successful themselves. For example, if one of our resident billionaires leaves all of his wealth to one person, why should our society tax hard working people in favour of the billionaire's anointed one?

I say all of the above as someone on the property gravy train and someone likely to get an inheritance. But I'd rather earn it than have it handed to me and I think our tax system should favour earned wealth over unearned wealth.

I know SF are proposing a wealth tax but they are way off to date with their proposal. They wanted a flat 5% on assets which would mean the State would own almost everything in 20 years. That is nothing like what I am talking about. As for FG they are proposing an increase in the inheritance tax threshold. That is also the complete opposite to what I am talking about.

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

Muppet, could you explain in more detail how you think the government should make money on rising property prices? If I bought a house for 250k and paid the mortgage over 25 years and have lived in it, and aim to live in it until the day I die, how and why should I be taxed on it?

[highorlow]

Whinge - Gate is on whineline now with Joe.

This looks like its turning in FG's favour, most of the public and callers are agreeing with EK.

[muppet]

The cost of Social Protection is greater than the income tax take these days. VAT, Excise duty, the painfully low Corporation tax take and others have to pay for everything else.

I think all parties have their thinking on taxes arseways. The all want their grubby hands on it to reward their own personal voters. This is a legal form of corruption and they all engage in it.

Our tax system punishes success and hard work and reward idleness. This is patently crazy. The use of cliched terms like 'the most vulnerable', and 'progressive taxation', etc can't disguise the fact that the vast majority of our tax take is from income and thus punishes workers. The more successful and/or hard working you are, the more you are fleeced.

There is a class in society, though, whereby people are rewarded handsomely without doing any work. Unearned income, such as increases in property prices and inheritance is taboo territory for politicians and yet some select people can get very wealthy without having to do any work at all. Why do we allow there people to be rewarded so well?

For example, inheritance tax should be astronomical once it exceeds a certain threshold. The threshold should reflect say the cost of an average house. The same should apply to rising property prices. This is money made without doing any work and should be taxed to death. Part of the problem with the latter though is that it is now apparent most of our banks don't know how to make money from anything other than a rising property market (and thus benefit themselves from unearned income) and they leverage governments into doing everything they can to inflate the property market.

Rising property prices is a cost for everyone not on the gravy train, and a free lunch for those on it. We shouldn't reward such a system. Likewise inheritance is rewarding children or relatives of successful people, regardless of whether or not the recipient is of any value to society, or a hard worker, or successful themselves. For example, if one of our resident billionaires leaves all of his wealth to one person, why should our society tax hard working people in favour of the billionaire's anointed one?

I say all of the above as someone on the property gravy train and someone likely to get an inheritance. But I'd rather earn it than have it handed to me and I think our tax system should favour earned wealth over unearned wealth.

I know SF are proposing a wealth tax but they are way off to date with their proposal. They wanted a flat 5% on assets which would mean the State would own almost everything in 20 years. That is nothing like what I am talking about. As for FG they are proposing an increase in the inheritance tax threshold. That is also the complete opposite to what I am talking about.

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

Muppet, could you explain in more detail how you think the government should make money on rising property prices? If I bought a house for 250k and paid the mortgage over 25 years and have lived in it, and aim to live in it until the day I die, how and why should I be taxed on it?

You would be taxed on the profit when you sold it. If you live in it until you die, you wouldn't pay tax on it, nor would your spouse, but after, or in the event of a sale, or transfer via inheritance, it would be taxed heavily.

I believe any gain in value should be taxed, in preference to income tax, because you worked for the latter and did nothing to profit from the former. In my opinion of course.

[Esmarelda]

The cost of Social Protection is greater than the income tax take these days. VAT, Excise duty, the painfully low Corporation tax take and others have to pay for everything else.

I think all parties have their thinking on taxes arseways. The all want their grubby hands on it to reward their own personal voters. This is a legal form of corruption and they all engage in it.

Our tax system punishes success and hard work and reward idleness. This is patently crazy. The use of cliched terms like 'the most vulnerable', and 'progressive taxation', etc can't disguise the fact that the vast majority of our tax take is from income and thus punishes workers. The more successful and/or hard working you are, the more you are fleeced.

There is a class in society, though, whereby people are rewarded handsomely without doing any work. Unearned income, such as increases in property prices and inheritance is taboo territory for politicians and yet some select people can get very wealthy without having to do any work at all. Why do we allow there people to be rewarded so well?

For example, inheritance tax should be astronomical once it exceeds a certain threshold. The threshold should reflect say the cost of an average house. The same should apply to rising property prices. This is money made without doing any work and should be taxed to death. Part of the problem with the latter though is that it is now apparent most of our banks don't know how to make money from anything other than a rising property market (and thus benefit themselves from unearned income) and they leverage governments into doing everything they can to inflate the property market.

Rising property prices is a cost for everyone not on the gravy train, and a free lunch for those on it. We shouldn't reward such a system. Likewise inheritance is rewarding children or relatives of successful people, regardless of whether or not the recipient is of any value to society, or a hard worker, or successful themselves. For example, if one of our resident billionaires leaves all of his wealth to one person, why should our society tax hard working people in favour of the billionaire's anointed one?

I say all of the above as someone on the property gravy train and someone likely to get an inheritance. But I'd rather earn it than have it handed to me and I think our tax system should favour earned wealth over unearned wealth.

I know SF are proposing a wealth tax but they are way off to date with their proposal. They wanted a flat 5% on assets which would mean the State would own almost everything in 20 years. That is nothing like what I am talking about. As for FG they are proposing an increase in the inheritance tax threshold. That is also the complete opposite to what I am talking about.

Increase taxation on unearned wealth and accordingly lower taxation on earned wealth. No one is proposing anything like this so I have no idea who to vote for.

Muppet, could you explain in more detail how you think the government should make money on rising property prices? If I bought a house for 250k and paid the mortgage over 25 years and have lived in it, and aim to live in it until the day I die, how and why should I be taxed on it?

You would be taxed on the profit when you sold it. If you live in it until you die, you wouldn't pay tax on it, nor would your spouse, but after, or in the event of a sale, or transfer via inheritance, it would be taxed heavily.

I believe any gain in value should be taxed, in preference to income tax, because you worked for the latter and did nothing to profit from the former. In my opinion of course.

I agree 100% with you. It was just that you didn't mention the sale of the property in your initial post (I don't think). I thought you were going to impose a property tax much like the one we have now which is bullshit, in my opinion.

[seafoid]

I actually think their mantra changed last week after that poll about people not feeling the recovery. Varadker was on Newstalk or RTE news, and he mentioned 'We need to bring the recovery into the home' or 'into everyone's home' at least 3 times. Then I heard another lad, maybe Coveney, saying the very same thing.

they are al on message. IBEC supports FG which is al you need to know.
Stil thousands and thousands in negative equity, thousands with no wage increases, many many seeing how shoddy the health system is, hundreds of thousands of people un der 30 seeing their salaries slashed ..lots of economic losers out there with votes

[highorlow]

Stil thousands and thousands in negative equity, thousands with no wage increases, many many seeing how shoddy the health system is, hundreds of thousands of people un der 30 seeing their salaries slashed ..lots of economic losers out there with votes

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/rising-house-prices-lift-45-000-out-of-negative-equity-1.1884332

http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-wage/news/

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/jobs-minimum-wage-to-be-increased-to-9-15-from-january-1.2388570

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/irish-workers-are-likely-to-get-pay-rises-next-year-1.2472855

I agree with you to a certain extent on the health system (I've no personal experience with this apart from getting the young lad a free doctor visit lately), I'd imagine it has slightly improved from 6 years ago though.