The run up to conflict in Northern Ireland

[Tony Baloney]

I don't think you can call the likes of Bombardier etc. as unskilled work. Whilst the option for university should be there for everyone we need to look at what this place looks like when we have too many graduates in useless degrees and no skilled electricians, brickies,  joiners and plumbers (obviously assuming there is an industry to support them!). Third level education needs to really work on employability skills at all levels as the standard of people out there is dire based on application forms I see.

[T Fearon]

Fact is that wealthy and even middle class Catholics and Protestants enjoyed and always did enjoy privileged lifestyles in the six counties,while working class and unemployed Catholics and Protestants were encouraged to fight each other.Look at the U turns both SF and DUP have made,doing things they said they would never do etc.

I simply do not see any future in pursuing unity with two states that don't want us and have no interest in or concern for us.I think there is a substantial strata of common culture between the two communities in the North,and think the development of this should be prioritised and then who knows,the 50% of the electorate who don't currently vote,which means they reject the current arrangements,might be enticed to the ballot box and the tribal parties influence might well be negated.

[armaghniac]

Fact is that wealthy and even middle class Catholics and Protestants enjoyed and always did enjoy privileged lifestyles in the six counties,while working class and unemployed Catholics and Protestants were encouraged to fight each other.Look at the U turns both SF and DUP have made,doing things they said they would never do etc.

I simply do not see any future in pursuing unity with two states that don't want us and have no interest in or concern for us.I think there is a substantial strata of common culture between the two communities in the North,and think the development of this should be prioritised and then who knows,the 50% of the electorate who don't currently vote,which means they reject the current arrangements,might be enticed to the ballot box and the tribal parties influence might well be negated.

yes, the 6 counties is so successful that it shouldn't look to other places but should carry on in its own unique way.

[T Fearon]

I am advocating change and that the development of a joint culture should take priority over the worn out and divisive constitutional issue.

[imtommygunn]

I wouldn't say that at all seafoid. That issue is specific to certain areas e.g. East belfast with shorts and then there's mackeys and maybe wrights in ballymena. It is not the same on the whole.

Pretty sure Bombardier would refute that and would say they have an equal opportunities policy to all backgrounds. I know plenty of Catholics that work there.

Is Mackies's still around?

Wright's you may well be correct although would be interested to see what the split is in the population in a 15mile radius around their factory in comparison to their workforce.

Historically though. Policies in those places would be fine now but not 70s etc.I think mackies is shut a long time.

[seafoid]

Fact is that wealthy and even middle class Catholics and Protestants enjoyed and always did enjoy privileged lifestyles in the six counties,while working class and unemployed Catholics and Protestants were encouraged to fight each other.Look at the U turns both SF and DUP have made,doing things they said they would never do etc.

I simply do not see any future in pursuing unity with two states that don't want us and have no interest in or concern for us.I think there is a substantial strata of common culture between the two communities in the North,and think the development of this should be prioritised and then who knows,the 50% of the electorate who don't currently vote,which means they reject the current arrangements,might be enticed to the ballot box and the tribal parties influence might well be negated.

What proportion are middle class ? Maybe 30%
I bet that future generations will be less tribal and more in favour of reunification

[T Fearon]

I don't know.Seamus Mallon was interviewed on radio yesterday and said there was no vision for unity.Money and economics will play an ever increasing role,but I do not expect to see reunification in my lifetime,though having said that a lot of things have happened that I could never have foreseen

[smelmoth]

Fact is that wealthy and even middle class Catholics and Protestants enjoyed and always did enjoy privileged lifestyles in the six counties,while working class and unemployed Catholics and Protestants were encouraged to fight each other.Look at the U turns both SF and DUP have made,doing things they said they would never do etc.

I simply do not see any future in pursuing unity with two states that don't want us and have no interest in or concern for us.I think there is a substantial strata of common culture between the two communities in the North,and think the development of this should be prioritised and then who knows,the 50% of the electorate who don't currently vote,which means they reject the current arrangements,might be enticed to the ballot box and the tribal parties influence might well be negated.

What proportion are middle class ? Maybe 30%
I bet that future generations will be less tribal and more in favour of reunification

And the non-tribal reasons for "reunification" are?

Also noting the absence of any specific justifications for all those uncomfortable murders

[general_lee]

I'll bite...

What is the difference between a killing and and a murder?

Eg British soldiers were murdered by the IRA. IRA members were killed by the British Army.

[bennydorano]

Pre - meditation in a murder.

[armaghniac]

Pre - meditation in a murder.

So an execution in the US is a murder?

[general_lee]

Pre - meditation in a murder.

I get that. I'm detecting an insinuation by another poster that all the deaths in the conflict (by one side at least) were murder.

[bennydorano]

Pre - meditation in a murder.

So an execution in the US is a murder?

Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing, an execution is a 'lawful' killing.

[smelmoth]

The definition of murder is clear. Maybe some republican murders might have been manslaughter but the rest are clearly murder. Put forward a legally accepted authority that states otherwise or just accept that they were murder.

Some state killings are lawful (including the death penalty in some US states or the taking down of jihadists in a Paris shootout) and some state killings in the troubles will fall into this category. Others were murder.

My posts to date have focused on the republican murders because there are some on this site that think that these murders were or are justified. Though there remains none who have outlined that justification. What is the big secret? Or is it just shame?

[seafoid]

The definition of murder is clear. Maybe some republican murders might have been manslaughter but the rest are clearly murder. Put forward a legally accepted authority that states otherwise or just accept that they were murder.

Some state killings are lawful (including the death penalty in some US states or the taking down of jihadists in a Paris shootout) and some state killings in the troubles will fall into this category. Others were murder.

My posts to date have focused on the republican murders because there are some on this site that think that these murders were or are justified. Though there remains none who have outlined that justification. What is the big secret? Or is it just shame?

When politics fail, the poor get shafted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUsSawPeVg