French Terrorist Attacks

[moysider]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

I agree that the nut jobs have to be dealt with as the immediate priority.

But imo that will be a complete and utter waste of time and lives if the 'history, environmental and economic issues' are ignored and the status quo is allowed to remain in place.

Agree of course. But what to replace the status quo with? Historically this region was ruled as caliphates. The region is defined by religion.  But like IS there is no way of knowing what kind of caliphate will emerge in some parts of the region.
Anybody that thinks that the West can establish western style democracy in the region is nuts imo.
What would replace the Sheiks in Saudi? That would be some can of worms. 

[muppet]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

I agree that the nut jobs have to be dealt with as the immediate priority.

But imo that will be a complete and utter waste of time and lives if the 'history, environmental and economic issues' are ignored and the status quo is allowed to remain in place.

Agree of course. But what to replace the status quo with? Historically this region was ruled as caliphates. The region is defined by religion.  But like IS there is no way of knowing what kind of caliphate will emerge in some parts of the region.
Anybody that thinks that the West can establish western style democracy in the region is nuts imo.
What would replace the Sheiks in Saudi? That would be some can of worms.

I completely agree with this. A Western style President or Prime Minister is always put in place in Africa and the first thing he usually does is use the military to slaughter the other tribes. Hussein was another example of this.

I don't pretend to have an answer, as I said earlier will take ingenious solutions that are way beyond us mere mortals. But at the moment our leaders aren't even talking about, talking about any solutions.

[seafoid]

I don't think there are solutions that are cost effective in a recessionary global economy.
We'll get sticking plaster answers.

Sunni vs Shia is the equivalent of the Thirty Years' War in Europe in the 1500s between Catholics and Protestants.
Throw in climate change, population growth and the end of the model of Arab dictators and it's really complex. 

[muppet]

I don't think there are solutions that are cost effective in a recessionary global economy.
We'll get sticking plaster answers.

Sunni vs Shia is the equivalent of the Thirty Years' War in Europe in the 1500s between Catholics and Protestants.
Throw in climate change, population growth and the end of the model of Arab dictators and it's really complex.

This is an interesting point. If it is the end, and you are probably right, what comes next?

[macdanger2]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

At a basic level it's religion-driven but to consider the environmental and economic issues as distractions means you ignore why young Muslim men choose to join something like IS. And ignoring that means you have zero hope of defeating IS

[whitey]

One unintended consequence is that it will now make it almost impossible for Obama to enact very much gun control

[moysider]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

At a basic level it's religion-driven but to consider the environmental and economic issues as distractions means you ignore why young Muslim men choose to join something like IS. And ignoring that means you have zero hope of defeating IS

I wouldn t be ignoring anything but right now I think IS atrocities are the priority. Not just attacks abroad but the genocide in Syria/Iraq and the wanton destruction of antiquities. The latter is beneath contempt and enough cause for their defeat alone imo.
It should also be remembered that young muslim men and girls have left well off countries like Britain and France to join IS. Jihadi John attended university and had an hons. degree. He had a good job.
I honestly think this movement is religiously motivated and the upheaval in Syria, Iraq and other areas has given these opportunists a window to get a foothold. Their uninhibited bloodthirstiness and access to modern weapons saw them become very successful very quickly as the west stalled. I expect things will now change.

[muppet]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

At a basic level it's religion-driven but to consider the environmental and economic issues as distractions means you ignore why young Muslim men choose to join something like IS. And ignoring that means you have zero hope of defeating IS

I wouldn t be ignoring anything but right now I think IS atrocities are the priority. Not just attacks abroad but the genocide in Syria/Iraq and the wanton destruction of antiquities. The latter is beneath contempt and enough cause for their defeat alone imo.
It should also be remembered that young muslim men and girls have left well off countries like Britain and France to join IS. Jihadi John attended university and had an hons. degree. He had a good job.
I honestly think this movement is religiously motivated and the upheaval in Syria, Iraq and other areas has given these opportunists a window to get a foothold. Their uninhibited bloodthirstiness and access to modern weapons saw them become very successful very quickly as the west stalled. I expect things will now change.

That is another good point.

Who is selling them the weapons?

[Rossfan]

One unintended consequence is that it will now make it almost impossible for Obama to enact very much gun control

Just what the world needs eh?
Stupid yanks with guns. That will solve all the world's problems.

[Minder]

Trump opens rally in Texas by noting Paris has tough gun laws: "If they had guns... It would have been a much, much different situation."

[seafoid]

I don't think there are solutions that are cost effective in a recessionary global economy.
We'll get sticking plaster answers.

Sunni vs Shia is the equivalent of the Thirty Years' War in Europe in the 1500s between Catholics and Protestants.
Throw in climate change, population growth and the end of the model of Arab dictators and it's really complex.

This is an interesting point. If it is the end, and you are probably right, what comes next?

No idea. Maybe a refined model - benign dictators who can bring economic goodies.
I suppose longer term border realignments - eg Iraq Sunni triangle unites with Sunni Syria. Shia parts get their own states - Alawi in Syria and Southern Iraq. 

Otherwise could be like Iraq- stable politics but people getting killed left, right and centre.
Saudi is the big question. What happens after the Sauds ?

Egypt is a time bomb with that population growth. Resources and jobs are key. Any coherent Western approach would have to address jobs for young men and fertility rates but there's no chance of that happening while Europe is stagnating.

[muppet]

Trump opens rally in Texas by noting Paris has tough gun laws: "If they had guns... It would have been a much, much different situation."

Who are 'they'? The people at the concert? The fans at the match?

Is the man completely insane?

This is the man Stew called a Democrat BTW, so we have to assume Trump is a moderate. God help us.

[seafoid]

The guys blowing themselves up are the frontline soldiers. It might not be a conventional army and blowing oneself up is not a conventional tactic but it is an effective one when taking on a vastly superior military might.
They won t take over much but will do a lot of damage trying if they are not stopped.

They are terrorists. They do enough damage as it is.

But claiming they want to rule the world is simply helping them spread their terror.

They control an area bigger than Britain and are taking their ambition beyond their homeland. Dismissing them as a bunch of psychopaths is not helpful imo. It is a religious state with carefully considered beliefs. Via the internet it can spread its influence  and it doesn t need many followers in places like France, Spain, Britain etc to cause mayhem. IS sees itself as going to have a major say and need to be taken on and not contained. Their ideology rejects peace as a matter of principal. It embraces conflict and genocide. Losing a few frontline soldiers is small fry to them.
To stop them means they will have to be hunted down. Also if the bombers were French born or immigrants is neither here nor there. They are just IS. The state is global.

Hunt down ISIS and destroy them and then the next wave of lunatics will then pop-up.

Then what?

Short term and long term strategies.

IS must be dealt with immediately. This is religion driven and no point getting distracted now with history, environmental and economic issues. There needs to be long term strategies put in place to manage North Africa and Middle East in the future. Right now the threat of IS must be eliminated imo.

At a basic level it's religion-driven but to consider the environmental and economic issues as distractions means you ignore why young Muslim men choose to join something like IS. And ignoring that means you have zero hope of defeating IS

I wouldn t be ignoring anything but right now I think IS atrocities are the priority. Not just attacks abroad but the genocide in Syria/Iraq and the wanton destruction of antiquities. The latter is beneath contempt and enough cause for their defeat alone imo.
It should also be remembered that young muslim men and girls have left well off countries like Britain and France to join IS. Jihadi John attended university and had an hons. degree. He had a good job.
I honestly think this movement is religiously motivated and the upheaval in Syria, Iraq and other areas has given these opportunists a window to get a foothold. Their uninhibited bloodthirstiness and access to modern weapons saw them become very successful very quickly as the west stalled. I expect things will now change.

Turkey and Saudi are very ambivalent about IS. Blair's adventure in Iraq means the Brits are very wary of getting involved.
The rape of Syria proceeds more or less without any interruption.

IS will run out of steam eventually because it's too gory for locals, IMO.   
Very few westerners have gone to IS really- a couple of thousand, under misapprehensions, especially the ladies.
Then you have a structural problem with Islam. Anyone can say any kind of shite and claim to be Islamic.

I don't think there is much France can do either. The Legion isn't great at fighting modern terrorism which is so vague.

[whitey]

One unintended consequence is that it will now make it almost impossible for Obama to enact very much gun control

Just what the world needs eh?
Stupid yanks with guns. That will solve all the world's problems.

Well if the "stupid yanks" are in America,it really has no impact on anyone else does it?

[muppet]

Trump opens rally in Texas by noting Paris has tough gun laws: "If they had guns... It would have been a much, much different situation."

Who are 'they'? The people at the concert? The fans at the match?

Is the man completely insane?

This is the man Stew called a Democrat BTW, so we have to assume Trump is a moderate. God help us.

Murder rates per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people

USA 42
Ireland 12
UK 11.68
France 10

He has some cheek lecturing on the subject.