Search for New Mayo Manager

[Il Bomber Destro]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

Other than an email 'expressing surprise' at a matchday 26 omission, the only question regarding selection was Seamie 'expressing a preference' for Hennelly's kickouts. Seeing as he is the one expected to win a lot of them, I don't see a problem with his 'expressing a preference' at all. If he demanded a change, then that would be different. If there was any real attempt to pick the team, I have little doubt H&C would have told us all about it.

People here are jumping from a couple of sleveen style stories with a misleading headline and interpolating that there was a bunch of egos who picked the team. Nowhere in the article does it say that.

Regarding Alan Dillon, players are always upset when they bust a gut for months and don't make the team. If they aren't, I'm not sure I'd want them in the squad personally. But that is part of management.

For H&C to single out Alan Dillon for complaining about being dropped is very low in my opinion.

Double standards Muppet strikes again.

On one hand you are downplaying what the O'Sheas did - they had no business telling the management team how to pick their team and neither did Alan Dillon. They also made clear reference to Dillon's attitude changing towards them once he had lost his place.

There's nothing wrong with a player being unhappy with being dropped, there is something severely wrong with a player going to a manager and telling him he should be starting ahead of a specific player.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

So the shambolic process presumably refers to Holmes and Connelly getting the gig because they had close linked to the County Board or something? This is the crux of Mayo fans issues with them and why they support the players because they see some sort of nepotism/old friends act.

On the other hand you have Aidan O'Shea trying to force the management team's hands to put his brother in a matchday squad and the other O'Shea trying to force the manager to put their clubmate in goal and not a dickie bird from the Mayo lads about this type of nepotism and old pal's act.

You can't have your cake and eat it, lads.

[muppet]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

[muppet]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

Now we are at the crux of the issue.

The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.

So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.

But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?

I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.

Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.

The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.

This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

Now we are at the crux of the issue.

The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.

So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.

But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?

I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.

Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.

The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.

This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.

So your opinion is based on subjective nonsense whereby you will not entertain the idea that players sought to undermine management even though the management are on record about these incidents which have not been disputed.

[Jinxy]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

Now we are at the crux of the issue.

The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.

So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.

But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?

I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.

Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.

The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.

This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.

They never spoke about anything other than wanting H & C gone.
If you wrote a letter to HR at work saying you didn't want to continue working under your line manager because they didn't meet your high standards, I think you could expect a response along the lines of, 'Could you be a bit more specific?'
My comment on sacrificing a season (not intentionally) is based precisely on the fact that the team did so well, in the midst of all this discontent.
If H & C were so bad, how come the team played so well?

[Lar Naparka]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like)  turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere.  )
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.

[muppet]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

Now we are at the crux of the issue.

The reality is that H&C don't seem to know. After the heave, there were lots of calls from CB people demanding to know why the players wanted rid of them, and the players said nothing. The Indo presents that article as a list of grievances from certainplayers, but is in in fact a list of individual gripes made by players over the year, as recalled by H&C. Those gripes may have had nothing to do with the heave, or everything to do with the heave, we don't know and neither do H&C, as the players have long maintained a silence on the issue.

So the context you refer to, is that H&C still don't know. They simply give a few mildly embarassing anecdotes about a year in the life of Mayo management, as I'm sure any management team wanting to stick the knife into any team could do. They then claim the show is being run by a few players, but the evidence from their revelations is very flimsy.

But it is extremely unbalanced of them to attack the players for dispensing with them, without even referencing the shambolic process that put them in charge of those players.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but once they're appointed, should everyone not move forward in the best interests of Mayo football?
Did the players effectively sacrifice their season as a way of sticking two fingers up to the county board?

I don't understand how the players effectively sacrificed a season where they lost to the greatest team of all time, in an AIF replay, by a point.

Put those players out on the pitch and they will die for the cause.

The article is spun such that H&C list supposed gripes that caused the players heave. There is no evidence at all that any of these gripes were even relevant to the players heave, as the players have never spoken about it.

This has been presented, by the Indo, as an interview whereby H&C clear their names. All they did was attempt to smear the players in my opinion. I feel a lot less sympathy for them now that I did at the time of the heave.

They never spoke about anything other than wanting H & C gone.
If you wrote a letter to HR at work saying you didn't want to continue working under your line manager because they didn't meet your high standards, I think you could expect a response along the lines of, 'Could you be a bit more specific?'
My comment on sacrificing a season (not intentionally) is based precisely on the fact that the team did so well, in the midst of all this discontent.
If H & C were so bad, how come the team played so well?

HR in this case is the County Board, who presided over the shambolic appointment process. There appears to be little regard between the squad and the CB for each other. In a normal job, in those circumstances, you might seek another channel, such as a trade union or Rights Commissioner depending on the grievance. Or you might quit and move to another company. But none of these options are available to GAA players.

Regarding how come they played so well, it is because they are a very good squad. They need someone to get them over the line though and they felt H&C were not going to do that. I would suggest that some supporters felt that way too. After that article, I am more convinced of that than ever.

[Itchy]

One of the most damning things about the whole episode is why no explanation was given to the management as to why they were being told to leave. I mean you have a meeting, O sheas and the boys say whats going to happen and the captain goes to two Mayo men (who had served their county well for years) and says we want you out but we wont say why?? I mean does anyone in their right mind think that is ok?

Then they threaten the county board with strike if they don't do what they say too?

How Mayo people can defend that is beyond me. Now I do accept that the two lads should have booted 2/3 of these boys of the panel and that would have focused the mind and for not doing so they were weak. But by far the biggest sinners in this were the group of players who instigated this. The same players that vanished when the going gets tough too.

Whats worse for Mayo is that the signs are the same lads are doing the same things. Heh, its your county lads but in my mind there is no hope ye will win Sam if that shite is going on in the camp.

[Itchy]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like)  turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere.  )
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.

I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.

[muppet]

The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.

I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.

[muppet]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like)  turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere.  )
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.

I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.

'They also highlighted some errors for goals and also some occasions when they turned the ball over to (sic) easily'.

Did you miss that bit?

[INDIANA]

The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.

I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.

How do you move on from players asking the manager to drop certain players and those players still on being on the same squad.

[Dubhaltach]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.

I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.

[muppet]

The irony of this demand for answers is that I'm guessing some of those answers are likely to be humiliating for the ousted management team.

I was told a story by a member of the backroom team that was pathetic, but he didn't seem to have slightest idea how badly it reflected on him and the rest of the management. I hope the players resist the temptation and move on.

How do you move on from players asking the manager to drop certain players and those players still on being on the same squad.

Dunno, where did this happen?