Search for New Mayo Manager

[heffo]

I'm impressed by Rochford so far.

Dublin in their post AI hangover year next year, Kerry likely to lose a few old timers.

If he can eek out a few percentage points here or there, Mayo could do it.

[twohands!!!]

I really don't know why people try and separate score from frees and scores from play . they both count exactly the same and Many  games have been lost for the want of a free taker and Cillian is probably the best around . He has fair distance two good feet and most of all he is Reliable , would make any team in the country as a free taker

Because in championship football the scoring rate for attempts from play is around the 45% mark whereas from frees it is around the 70% mark or to put it another way scoring from a free is 50% easier than scoring from play. [This is based on Don't Foul's excellent work]

[muppet]

I really don't know why people try and separate score from frees and scores from play . they both count exactly the same and Many  games have been lost for the want of a free taker and Cillian is probably the best around . He has fair distance two good feet and most of all he is Reliable , would make any team in the country as a free taker

Because in championship football the scoring rate for attempts from play is around the 45% mark whereas from frees it is around the 70% mark or to put it another way scoring from a free is 50% easier than scoring from play. [This is based on Don't Foul's excellent work]

That doesn't necessarily follow.

For example. the 70% stat is for free-takers. Those dedicated individuals who practise for hours taking frees, over and over again doing the same routine to perfect their art. I would expect a high percentage as they are usually the most accurate kickers on the team. It doesn't mean it is 'easy'.

The 45% includes all forwards, midfielders and some defenders, all who will have a go over a season. Some practise point taking religiously (e.g. BB, Gooch etc), some practise a more rounded game (e.g. Donncha Walsh) and who will have lower stats shooting, and some will be midfielders and defenders who won't focus on shooting much and will have lower stats again.

But you can't deduce that the scores by the former are easier than those of the latter. If the most accurate kickers on the team were the only ones to shoots then this stat would be much higher and equally if every player had to take a free themselves when fouled, the first stat would drop alarmingly.

[Rossfan]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

[An Gaeilgoir]

You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play  and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.

No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.

But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.

Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.

Sure even the bus driver would get his game before any of our poor, useless amadáns.

In fairness the bus driver has plenty of time to train, he is usually free from July until February! !

[Lar Naparka]

You can quote his over all stats all you want. Separate his scores from play  and tell me what they are, if you divide them up, per game. Will it make for such impressive reading? I doubt it.

No one is saying he is useless. That seems to be the automatic knee jerk reaction whenever anyone questions his contributions from play. Lord knows why. He is far from useless. He'd walk onto any team in the county, for his prowess from placed balls alone. If Kerry and Dublin have Bryan Sheehan and Dean Rock primarily for their free taking duties, O'Connors value to Mayo is incalculable.

But that doesn't mean they will win the AI, with him as their primary scorer. Kerry, Dublin and Donegal have other forwards who can bang in the big goals, in the big games, when they are needed most. Do Mayo? If the Mayo defense didn't leak bad goals, at the worst possible times, maybe they wouldn't need such increased productivity. But until they fix their habit of doing that, they will.

Not according to the Rossies. They reckon they have at least 6 better forwards.

Sure even the bus driver would get his game before any of our poor, useless amadáns.

In fairness the bus driver has plenty of time to train, he is usually free from July until February! !

+1
Ah feck it! Why can't I think of ones like that.

[larryin89]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

[Lar Naparka]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

[moysider]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

[seafoid]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

[moysider]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?

What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty  from Kerry.

[Lar Naparka]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?

What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty  from Kerry.

I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field.  That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.

(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)

[Syferus]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?

What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty  from Kerry.

I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field.  That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.

(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)

Same as Regan. Mr. Horan alienated him. Gallagher is a better footballer than DOC from what I've seen.

[moysider]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?

What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty  from Kerry.

I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field.  That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.

(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)

Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?

Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.

Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3).   Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.

Were passengers the problem?

Seafóid said 'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.


You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen?  Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?

[Lar Naparka]

A point is a point whether from play or placed ball or by a forward, back or specialist free taker.
Did any team ever win an AI without an accurate free taker?

Exactly and one of the most ridiculous flaws in our armchair analytical brigade , why we so often take an accurate free taker for granted is stupid.

When COC kicked two sideline balls down in pairc ui chaoimh from either side from about 35 -40 yds out about two years ago in a league game that a loss would of meant relegation , I personally came away from that game knowing he was a class act .23 Ffs , please keep that in mind . Great attitude , comes across very grounded and smart too .

I'd agree with both of you on this one. A good free taker, say COC, manages to score 0-8 from play or thereabouts, there is every likelihood that Catty Barry could have knocked 5 or 6 of them over. It's the one oe two left that counts and makes it worthwhile for a team to have an accurate freetaker even if he doesn't contribute a lot in play.
Cillian can spend games with little direct input but, as I've said before, his colleagues place their trust in him and that's fairly obvious all the time.

COC - injuries and all - is not in Mayo team to kick frees. Let's put that to bed. While being persistently injured he has also contributed well as a playmaker and finisher from play. Hopefully we will have him fit for a change for some years to come.

Not having a go at Maurice Sheridan but he was probably selected because of his ability to kick frees. O Connor is a different animal altogether. He would be there if he never kicked a free and he was right. He was risked injured because he was solid on frees but still did the pressing high up and stuff. Different animal and def. never carried for free taking.

Sheridan was a pure free taker. He always the weakest of the 6 forwards in general play IIRC.
Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me.

Other passenger? Dunno who you are getting at there?

What compounded the Sheridan selection was the Colm McMenamon played a roving deep role and that left us very light in the forwards. It resulted in 2 of the most ordinary centre half backs in AI final history being the main men and getting MOM in AI finals. Enda McManus from Meath and Liam O Flaherty  from Kerry.

I'd be inclined to go along with Seafóid on this one. Mayo, in my memory anyway, were never noted for free-scoring forwards. THe only natural goal-getter I can think of right now is Kevin O'Neill. Horfan realised this and by his second season in charge had introduced his pressing high etc tactics. I think he had decided that if goals didn't come easy, he'd have to go for points instead and forwards were instructed to track back and harass and harry like other sectors on the field.  That's when the half backs started pressing forward and go for points as well. Conorren didn't realise that the game plan had altered greatly when he returned after his lengthy absence and found there was no place for fancy dans anymore. I think Horan had just about settled on his first fifteen when Andy was banjaxed in the game against Down. He would have made one hell of a playmaker if fate hadn't intervened. He was the nearest thing to a Kevin 'Neill or a P Joyce that Mayo had then. Can't forget Cillian either; I think he'd fit perfectly into Horan's plans if if he did manage to put out his preferred front six.
Anyway, that's history. I do see some grounds for guarded optimism right now.
You have to give Pateen and Noel credit where it is due. They had decided to play AOS as their first choice FF and not go arsing about with him as JH had done.
If Cillian returns fit and ready for action and Diarmuid keeps up his present form. Mayo will have their best attack for some time.
I expect that there will be keen competition for places this year, compared to recent times. It's all to play for still but it's going to be a case of now or never; time will catch up on some of the older lads eventually and I can't see many who will be still in the running this time next year.

(BTW, whatever happened to Adam Gallagher?)

Not sure what point you re making Lar. Are you saying Conoreen was a passenger on Mayo teams for 10 years to kick frees?

Here are Mayo's six forwards from Mayo's last game before Horan era.

Andy Moran (0-2, one a '45'), Aidan O'Shea, Alan Freeman (0-5, one free); Conor Mortimer (0-2, one free), Barry Moran (0-1), Alan Dillon (0-3).   Ronaldson was a sub. All except Conoreen were still involved this year.

Were passengers the problem?

Seafóid said 'Mayo over the last 20 years have always had at least one passenger in the forwards, it seems to me'.


You agree with him so I was wondering who the passengers were/are? Conoreen?  Seafóid said at least one so you agree there were always more than one?

I did say that the Mayo attack down the years were never noted for free-scoring forwards and it just strikes me now that that is an ambiguous statement. I was not talking of scores from placed balls. I meant forwards like Padraig Joyce or Kevin O'Neill could pop the ball over from 40 yards out where other forwards first inclination would be to look around for someone to lay the ball off to. Lack of self-confidence I suppose. Those pair were far more likely to get a goal or two in the course of a game than anyone around them.Matter of fact, James Horan could be added to that pair as a natural score-getter; he was always capable of taking a half-chance from up to 40 yards out and slotting it over; he didn't have to handpass it in to the edge of the square, like so many of his colleagues.
Connoreen could never be accused of lack of heart and that's for sure  but he jibbed at the idea of having to track back and harass and harry like everyone around him.
Horan's work ethic didn't appeal to him.
IIRC, the game you take as an example was the qualifier against Longford where Mayo  still managed to come second. I think Longford were a Div 4 side at the time.

Why not take the results of the AI finals in successive years and see how Mayo's forwards ability to score from play stacks up against top class opposition. We've had endless arguments with Sidney and Indiana and loads of others about the relative worth of the Dubs forwards and Mayo's. The question (more or less) was that if each of the forwards was a free agent, would the other side have him on their side?
The overall view was pretty much that every Dub would get a place in the Mayo attack, while Cillian was the only one of ours who might take a spot from any of the Dubs.
The forwards scoring returns that day were far more representative of Mayo's attacking potential than the mickey mouse game against Longford.