Ulster IFC and JFC Club Championships 2015

[rodney trotter]

Loughinisland and Rockcorry both bate.

Interesting to note that the Mayo side in the intermediate finished second to Castlebar in Div 1 of the Mayo league. Wtf.

Both Mayo teams will be bate by Kerry Champions! If you think Mayo grading system is nuts, Kerry grading is of a high standard which means they do really well at intermediate and Junior.

I sadly expect a good beating for both in Croker.

Yeah sure Templenoe are Division 1 this season coming. Time the GAA brought in some sort of regulation across all counties in this regard.

I really can't see Croke Park having much luck forcing counties to adopt a system similar to the Kerry one.

Too many County Boards would kick up a fuss and demand to be allowed to do things their own flawed way - look at the example of Cavan where they got whatshisface to do a review of the county championship structure and he recommended that the number of senior clubs should be cut down. What did the Cavan County board do - turn around and increase the number of senior clubs.

It was the Clubs who objected to that, not the County board. That was regarding the Senior Championship format. The League in Cavan is run the same way as Mayo and those other Counties.

[AZOffaly]

It appears to me that Kerry operate their leagues, and championship, broadly in a similar manner to most other counties. The only confusion appears to be related to the County Championship versus Club Championship, and in truth that has very little to do with the relative strength of the clubs Kerry have been sending forward at Intermediate and Junior level.

As I said, next year this is a valid complaint, as to my mind St. Marys have won the Intermediate Championship, and should have been promoted to Senior Club status. Because of the trimming, this is not the case, and therefore St. Mary's will be intermediate again. (As will Laune Rangers). There are just quite a few good clubs in Kerry, and a lot of them at a similar type level. There's no Crossmaglen Rangers types, or Nemo Rangers, but there is a lot of Crokes/Stacks/Laune Rangers types.

[westbound]

AZ, I think the issue is that Kerry had only 11 Senior clubs in 2015 (plus the divisional sides), out of about 70? clubs in the county.
Therefore the 12th best club in the county is an intermediate team which also would have players who played senior championship in 2015 (on one of the divisional sides).

Some other counties might have 16 senior teams and no divisional sides meaning that the top intermediate club was only the 17th best in it's county and none of the players would have played senior football that year.

I can see the unfairness in that when the 17th best club in one county is supposed to be at the same level as the 12th best club in another county. (this gap is exacerbated further at junior level).

Having said that, I like the kerry system as it gives every player in the county the opportunity to play senior championship football. I think most/all other counties should implement it.

[AZOffaly]

That's true, but I don't believe that is in anyway underhanded or unfair. Offaly has 8 teams in their Senior Championship, so technically the 9th best team is Intermediate. Tipperary has 31 Senior hurling teams or something stupid like that.

At the end of the day, the Kerry board have said that their Championships are made up of teams based on their previous Championship performance, not their league performance. And that concept is by and large the same in most counties.

The number of teams they have in each grade is down to the way they run their championships, I'll grant you, but I would argue that if other counties are diluting their own championships (like Tipp in the hurling) then maybe they need to look at that, instead of whinging about Kerry not having 20 clubs playing senior.

I agree with you, that the Kerry model is very good for developing players, and I take your point about the likes of the Marys having players that have played Senior with South Kerry. However in terms of who is eligible to play in what grade, I don't think Kerry are doing anything very out of the way.

[general_lee]

Same as that in most counties I think, to be fair. As I said, if you were to level it off in the manner ye describe, how far down would you go?

Top 33.3% are senior.
Next 33.3% are intermediate.
Bottom 33.3% are junior.
All according to league standings. Give them a years notice. Wherever you finish after that season will dictate where you play (championship wise) the next.

Last year Armagh had 48 teams. Top 16 played senior. The next 16 played inter. The last 16 played junior. If you win or get promoted in the league you go up a championship grade and likewise relegation.

Maybe if all counties had that arrangement they'd take the league a bit more serious. The likes of Kerry, Cork and Dublin are different because of the sheer numbers but surely if you divide the clubs equally between the grades you'll get a fairer representation 

[AZOffaly]

Based on league standings? OK, and then each year do you recalibrate based on league standings, or do you take championship performance? e.g. If my team is good enough to reach a senior semi final, but gets relegated to Division 2, or Division 3, are they relegated to intermediate?

[general_lee]

Yep! They do that in Armagh. You have clubs who hypothetically could be rock bottom of and therefore relegated from Division 2 and be in the intermediate final, subsequently win it and be promoted instead. I think it actually happened in Tyrone one year!

It's a way of making the league more competitive if you attach some importance to it other than a trophy fr the team finishing top. Armagh have subdivided each league into two so each league now has 8 teams  with a view of increasing competitiveness further. Whether it works or not will be seen this season

[AZOffaly]

That would require a huge shift in thinking, and I think no matter what way you cut it, there will still be very strong teams from Kerry, at their respective levels.

[westbound]

That's true, but I don't believe that is in anyway underhanded or unfair. Offaly has 8 teams in their Senior Championship, so technically the 9th best team is Intermediate. Tipperary has 31 Senior hurling teams or something stupid like that.

At the end of the day, the Kerry board have said that their Championships are made up of teams based on their previous Championship performance, not their league performance. And that concept is by and large the same in most counties.

The number of teams they have in each grade is down to the way they run their championships, I'll grant you, but I would argue that if other counties are diluting their own championships (like Tipp in the hurling) then maybe they need to look at that, instead of whinging about Kerry not having 20 clubs playing senior.

I agree with you, that the Kerry model is very good for developing players, and I take your point about the likes of the Marys having players that have played Senior with South Kerry. However in terms of who is eligible to play in what grade, I don't think Kerry are doing anything very out of the way.

I wasn't trying to say that kerry are doing anything wrong at all. In fact, I think there model is the best system!
But I can understand some people's perception that it is unfair to have different qualifying rules for the same competition (i.e. all ireland club competition). But that is not kerry's fault at all.

And to be honest, there system was in place long before the all ireland club junior and intermediate comps, so it's not like they have redesigned their system to gain an advantage at that level.

[westbound]

That would require a huge shift in thinking, and I think no matter what way you cut it, there will still be very strong teams from Kerry, at their respective levels.

That is very true

[westbound]

 General Lee, I don't think the 33.33% rule that you have suggested would be practical in every county.

Applying it to Kerry for example would mean that you'd have about 25 teams playing senior football (and that's excluding divisional teams).

How many clubs in Cork? Over 100? That's mean over 30 clubs in each championship.

I don't think that's practical.

[general_lee]

I understand what your getting at. What I mean is divide the clubs equally between the grades... so Kerry you're looking at 16/17 teams per championship... Cork and Dublin are different but they have Junior A B C etc

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

The draw for the Kerry Intermediate championship 2016 was made tonight lads. Thought ye'd like to know.

St Michaels/Foilmore (AI Inter Champs 2009)
        v
Skellig Rangers (All Ireland Junior Champs 2009)

John Mitchels (10 Kerry Senior titles)
        v
      Spa (Munster Inter Champs 2010)

Brosna (AI Junior champs 2015)
    v
Castleisland Desmond's (AI Senior club winners 1985)

Currow (Kerry Inter champs 2013)
   v
Waterville

Gneeveguilla (Munster Inter champs 2010)
        v
Kenmare (Munster Junior Champs 2012)

Laune Rangers (AI Senior champs 1996. Munster champs 95 & 96)
        v
An Ghaeltacht (Munster Senior champs 2003)

Ardfert (AI Inter Champs 2007 & 2015)
    v
St Mary's (Munster Inter Champs 2015, hopefully AI Inter champs 2016. AI Junior champs 2011)

Glenflesk (Munster Senior club finalists 2000)
     v
Templenoe (Munster and hopefully AI Junior champs 2016)

The Junior championship draw includes:
Finuge  (2004 AI Junior champs, 2013 AI Intermediate runners up)
Annascaul (2007 Munster Intermediate champs)
Castlegregory (2010 AI Junior champs)
Duagh (2006 Munster Junior champs)
Dromid Pearses (2011 Munster Junior champs)
Listowel (who 5 yeaars ago were Senior)
Keel (2013 Munster Junior champs)

Incidentally, some people seem unaware, there has for years been 4 levels of club championship in Kerry:
Senior - Intermediate - Junior - Novice. (Won by Templenoe just in 2014)

Next year all teams who would be Junior or Novice are going into  1 draw for round 1. The winners play in a new Premier Junior championship, losers of those games play in Junior championship.

As AZ has already said, it's a bit ridiculous that Cahirciveen can't play Senior this year. Don't agree with that..Think there should be 10 Senior clubs allowed and 10/11 divisional teams. We like to keep the Senior championship strong AND give every club player an opportunity to play in it. The system isn't perfect, but it's better than most.

[Syferus]

It'll be a Clew Bay-sized f**k up if Ardnaree don't win the junior AI.

[AZOffaly]

I'd hate to be Waterville. The only club in Intermediate without parentheses