Tipperary vs. Galway All Ireland semi final 2015

[Milltown Row2]

I'm reminded of the line that "experience is something you don't get until just after you need it" (Steven Wright, according to Google, which works for me). Everyone who has ever taken up a whistle had to referee a game for the first time. So while experience is grand in allowing you to quickly identify THAT scenario and reacting accordingly, I would still prefer to think that refereeing is applied from first principles.

Referee's aren't robots (I Googled that) famous quote by Who Gives a feck

[deiseach]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

[Milltown Row2]

If I hit you on the knuckles as I try to hook you, is that a strike?

I should emphasis in all of this that I don't think it was an outrageously bad decision or anything like that. I said previously that Barry Kelly chickened out or words to that effect. That was wrong. Some decisions are obvious, some are not so obvious. But you have only have four options - red, yellow, free or play on. I thought it was a red but I wouldn't expect Barry Kelly to lose any sleep over it.

I don't think you are being very unreasonable or anything, I'm just curious at what you call a strike. If you have the same definition as me (ie. deliberately or recklessly hitting or attempting to hit an opponent) then we are on the same wavelength, and just disagree about the nature of JC's incident. i.e. Accidental/Careless/Reckless.

Are those words in the rule book? 

[finbar o tool]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

it doesnt matter what is or isnt a strike, what matters is whether there was intent or not.

[AZOffaly]

If I hit you on the knuckles as I try to hook you, is that a strike?

I should emphasis in all of this that I don't think it was an outrageously bad decision or anything like that. I said previously that Barry Kelly chickened out or words to that effect. That was wrong. Some decisions are obvious, some are not so obvious. But you have only have four options - red, yellow, free or play on. I thought it was a red but I wouldn't expect Barry Kelly to lose any sleep over it.

I don't think you are being very unreasonable or anything, I'm just curious at what you call a strike. If you have the same definition as me (ie. deliberately or recklessly hitting or attempting to hit an opponent) then we are on the same wavelength, and just disagree about the nature of JC's incident. i.e. Accidental/Careless/Reckless.

Are those words in the rule book? 

No MR, they aren't, and that's my point. The ref has to interpret whether it was reckless or deliberate, and if so then it falls under a strike in my view.

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

To me, you literally strike something when you hit it. If I was to interpret the rulebook literally, then every single time anyone was 'struck' with a hurley, either intentionally or not, it would be a red card.

Obviously this is ridiculous, so, for the purposes of refereeing I (and I'm sure most refs as well) consider a strike to be a willful or reckless act whereby you strike or attempt to strike the opponent.

Therefore, even though JC's did strike, in the literal sense of the word, what he did was not what I would consider a strike in the rules sense of the word.

[AZOffaly]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

it doesnt matter what is or isnt a strike, what matters is whether there was intent or not.

Doesn't say that in the rulebook finbar, but that's my point. Referees automatically apply that standard to it, and that's why JCs was never a red card in my opinion.

[Milltown Row2]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

Not a strike, striking the hand while player goes to catch ball, not even a foul providing he's hitting the catching hand and when the ball reaches hand at same time..... it's a strike if he pulls early though and only a yellow, same as when he misses the hand and comes down on helmet (mis-timed strike) providing he's watching the ball but, if he is standing back and draws a target on his helmet and then draws, then that's a red in my book

[AZOffaly]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

Not a strike, striking the hand while player goes to catch ball, not even a foul providing he's hitting the catching hand and when the ball reaches hand at same time..... it's a strike if he pulls early though and only a yellow, same as when he misses the hand and comes down on helmet (mis-timed strike) providing he's watching the ball but, if he is standing back and draws a target on his helmet and then draws, then that's a red in my book

Yes, I agree. But LITERALLY they are all 'strikes' with the hurley. That's why I'm saying a referee can't just say 'Did he (literally) strike?' He has to say did he deliberately or recklessly strike or attempt to strike his opponent.

[deiseach]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

Not a strike, striking the hand while player goes to catch ball, not even a foul providing he's hitting the catching hand and when the ball reaches hand at same time..... it's a strike if he pulls early though and only a yellow, same as when he misses the hand and comes down on helmet (mis-timed strike) providing he's watching the ball but, if he is standing back and draws a target on his helmet and then draws, then that's a red in my book

Okay, that all makes sense, and I appreciate the explanation. It does strike (pun unintended) me as a recipe for getting away with some absolutely outrageous pulls, and I really think it's been a problem in recent times where so much is considered acceptable if it wasn't 'deliberate'. But I see your point.

[Milltown Row2]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

Not a strike, striking the hand while player goes to catch ball, not even a foul providing he's hitting the catching hand and when the ball reaches hand at same time..... it's a strike if he pulls early though and only a yellow, same as when he misses the hand and comes down on helmet (mis-timed strike) providing he's watching the ball but, if he is standing back and draws a target on his helmet and then draws, then that's a red in my book

Okay, that all makes sense, and I appreciate the explanation. It does strike (pun unintended) me as a recipe for getting away with some absolutely outrageous pulls, and I really think it's been a problem in recent times where so much is considered acceptable if it wasn't 'deliberate'. But I see your point.

Everyone has a point on this and I've done senior championship where there are hundreds round a pitch trying to be a referee for the hour, either way youre a cnut!! so play ball 

[deiseach]

Everyone has a point on this and I've done senior championship where there are hundreds round a pitch trying to be a referee for the hour, either way youre a cnut!! so play ball 

Harsh but fair

[manfromdelmonte]

With the mandatory faceguards I think players nowadays are more careless with the use of the hurley whereas back in the day (can't believe I am saying that) players were imo anyway more conscious of keeping the hurley away from an opponent's face.

Blocking etc is also more reckless now with the faceguards.

Faceguards, btw are the best  imo anyway change to hurling

Most inter county faceguards are illegal as they have been altered.

[gallsman]

I can't put a quantitative figure on what amounts to a strike. All I can do is look at a particular incident and say why I think that amounts to a strike, which I have done. Now can you explain why you think it's a strike, yet not a strike?

it doesnt matter what is or isnt a strike, what matters is whether there was intent or not.

That's balls. Padraic Maher mangled Michael Rice's hand a few years ago. He did not intend to smash his hand to pieces but let loose with a wild, reckless one handed pull. No intent but deserving of a red card, in my opinion.

[theskull1]

I think he meant to contact flesh with that pull gallsman

[gallsman]

I think he meant to contact flesh with that pull gallsman

Perhaps he did but despite my dislike of him, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.