AISF Mayo v Dublin

[moysider]

from the Rule book

not sure why people are referring to  the Fact it Was a fist in the Rules only hand is mentioned and no mention is made with it is to the body or Face,

Technicaly Both should have gone but in the real world neither should have been sent off

from the rule book

Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Red Cards)
1. Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head.
2. Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force or with force or causing injury.
3. Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent.
4. Spitting at an opponent.
5. Contributing to a melee.
6. Stamping.
7. Inflicting injury recklessly.
8. Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.

You do realise there's a difference between a strike, a grab and a push.

Murphy PUSHES Keane in the chest and then GRABS a hold of his jersey. Keane punches Murphy on the butt of his chin.

You know those doors with no handles and the small metal push sign? Do you strike them open?

Actually, there isn't a difference between a strike and a push for our purposes.

In the dictionary the only difference between a strike and a push, is that the latter causes the object to move.

But a push fulfils the definition of a strike. Both require force and both require contact. Force + contact = a strike.

It does make a difference in the GAA rule book, not sure what you meant by "our purposes". Pushing is one type of foul, resulting in a free kick. Striking is a different foul resulting in a red card.

Not if there is a break in play it's not. Then it is violent conduct and a card may be shown.

[muppet]

from the Rule book

not sure why people are referring to  the Fact it Was a fist in the Rules only hand is mentioned and no mention is made with it is to the body or Face,

Technicaly Both should have gone but in the real world neither should have been sent off

from the rule book

Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Red Cards)
1. Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head.
2. Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force or with force or causing injury.
3. Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent.
4. Spitting at an opponent.
5. Contributing to a melee.
6. Stamping.
7. Inflicting injury recklessly.
8. Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.

You do realise there's a difference between a strike, a grab and a push.

Murphy PUSHES Keane in the chest and then GRABS a hold of his jersey. Keane punches Murphy on the butt of his chin.

You know those doors with no handles and the small metal push sign? Do you strike them open?

Actually, there isn't a difference between a strike and a push for our purposes.

In the dictionary the only difference between a strike and a push, is that the latter causes the object to move.

But a push fulfils the definition of a strike. Both require force and both require contact. Force + contact = a strike.

It does make a difference in the GAA rule book, not sure what you meant by "our purposes". Pushing is one type of foul, resulting in a free kick. Striking is a different foul resulting in a red card.

The weakness here is in the rule book, and in particular with language, so I am not having a go at you.

But by definition you cannot push someone without striking them. Equally you can't slap or punch someone without striking them either.

[Il Bomber Destro]

[Il Bomber Destro]

strike
strʌɪk/Submit
verb
1.
hit forcibly and deliberately with one's hand or a weapon or other implement.
"he raised his hand, as if to strike me"
synonyms:   bang, beat, hit, pound; More

push
pʊʃ/Submit
verb
1.
exert force on (someone or something) in order to move them away from oneself.




I think you'll note there are big differences between them.

[muppet]

strike
strʌɪk/Submit
verb
1.
hit forcibly and deliberately with one's hand or a weapon or other implement.
"he raised his hand, as if to strike me"
synonyms:   bang, beat, hit, pound; More

push
pʊʃ/Submit
verb
1.
exert force on (someone or something) in order to move them away from oneself.




I think you'll note there are big differences between them.

Wow, you found dictionaries that gave only one, single, all-encompassing, not to say convenient to your point, definitions of the words. 

You cannot push without making forceable contact. Making forceable contact is also a strike. If the GAA rule book defines these itself then that would be fine. But AFAIK it doesn't.

[squire_in_navy_slacks]

"The Aidan OShea push or stiff arm"................. Discuss !!!!!!!!

[muppet]

"The Aidan OShea push or stiff arm"................. Discuss !!!!!!!!

You should be more worried about the Quigley push. 

Anyway - The Gaa Rule Book discuss.

[Il Bomber Destro]

strike
strʌɪk/Submit
verb
1.
hit forcibly and deliberately with one's hand or a weapon or other implement.
"he raised his hand, as if to strike me"
synonyms:   bang, beat, hit, pound; More

push
pʊʃ/Submit
verb
1.
exert force on (someone or something) in order to move them away from oneself.




I think you'll note there are big differences between them.

Wow, you found dictionaries that gave only one, single, all-encompassing, not to say convenient to your point, definitions of the words. 

You cannot push without making forceable contact. Making forceable contact is also a strike. If the GAA rule book defines these itself then that would be fine. But AFAIK it doesn't.

Drown yourself in your own ignorance if you want but I've never seen a player get a straight red card for pushing someone in the chest in an intercounty game. I presume you'll be screaming for every push in the chest a Mayo man gives on Sunday week to be met with a red card.

[muppet]

Drown yourself in your own ignorance if you want but I've never seen a player get a straight red card for pushing someone in the chest in an intercounty game. I presume you'll be screaming for every push in the chest a Mayo man gives on Sunday week to be met with a red card.

You are arguing with your own imagination at this stage and don't seem to have a clue what point I am making.

I will say again that the problem IS THE GAA RULEBOOK. I will say it again the the problem IS WITH LANGUAGE.

I say will again that to push someone you must, by definition, strike them, unless you incredibly slowly and gently place your hands on them and manage to move them without striking, or hitting, them in anyway. But if you walk up to someone and unexpectedly and suddenly push them, you are guilty of striking them under the rules assuming normal english language definitions apply.

I will say again that if the GAA Rulebook defined a strike and a push differently this would probably be ok. I will say again that AFAIK the rulebook doesn't define either of these so we must assume normal english definitions apply.

And I never said that I saw anyone get a red card for pushing someone. Again you are making up an argument and then trying to defeat it.

[Mayo4Sam14]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win I'm afraid, Dublins Forwards are too good, Mayos defence isn't good enough. Anybody care to try and convince me that Mayo even have a chance?

[Syferus]

"The Aidan OShea push or stiff arm"................. Discuss !!!!!!!!

Either is better than his elbow.

[muppet]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win I'm afraid, Dublins Forwards are too good, Mayos defence isn't good enough. Anybody care to try and convince me that Mayo even have a chance?

No.

Can I have your tickets?

BTW this was the Dubs forwards in 2012:

P Flynn, MD Macauley, B Cullen,
C Kilkenny, D Connolly, B Brogan.

Alan Brogan, Eoghan O'Gara and Kevin McMenamin came on during the game.

I reckon our backs are much the same albeit with a slightly better system but in slightly worse form, our midfield is around the same and our forward have improved, although if we match the 0-19 form that day I would probably take it.

[Stall the Bailer]

from the Rule book

not sure why people are referring to  the Fact it Was a fist in the Rules only hand is mentioned and no mention is made with it is to the body or Face,

Technicaly Both should have gone but in the real world neither should have been sent off

from the rule book

Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Red Cards)
1. Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head.
2. Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force or with force or causing injury.
3. Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent.
4. Spitting at an opponent.
5. Contributing to a melee.
6. Stamping.
7. Inflicting injury recklessly.
8. Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.

You do realise there's a difference between a strike, a grab and a push.

Murphy PUSHES Keane in the chest and then GRABS a hold of his jersey. Keane punches Murphy on the butt of his chin.

You know those doors with no handles and the small metal push sign? Do you strike them open?

Actually, there isn't a difference between a strike and a push for our purposes.

In the dictionary the only difference between a strike and a push, is that the latter causes the object to move.

But a push fulfils the definition of a strike. Both require force and both require contact. Force + contact = a strike.

It does make a difference in the GAA rule book, not sure what you meant by "our purposes". Pushing is one type of foul, resulting in a free kick. Striking is a different foul resulting in a red card.

Not if there is a break in play it's not. Then it is violent conduct and a card may be shown.

There is nothing in the rule mentioning about a break in play. A foul can be aggressive (includes cynical), dissent or technical. There is also no violent conduct rule. You must be working of a different rule book.
If the push is dangerous then it could come under rule 5.17 "To behave in any way which is dangerous to an opponent." Another more serious one is if he causes injury.
You will only get a straight red card for a push if it falls under these rules. An example would be deliberately pushing a player into the fence with aim of hurting him.

[From the Bunker]

Can't see anything but a Dublin win I'm afraid, Dublins Forwards are too good, Mayos defence isn't good enough. Anybody care to try and convince me that Mayo even have a chance?

Firstly stop reading The Herald!

Secondly, who are the last two teams to beat Dublin in Championship football and at what stage did they beat them?

Thirdly, relax, enjoy the lead up to the game. Worrying won't make any difference on the result!

[Stall the Bailer]

from the Rule book

not sure why people are referring to  the Fact it Was a fist in the Rules only hand is mentioned and no mention is made with it is to the body or Face,

Technicaly Both should have gone but in the real world neither should have been sent off

from the rule book

Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Red Cards)
1. Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head.
2. Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force or with force or causing injury.
3. Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent.
4. Spitting at an opponent.
5. Contributing to a melee.
6. Stamping.
7. Inflicting injury recklessly.
8. Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.

You do realise there's a difference between a strike, a grab and a push.

Murphy PUSHES Keane in the chest and then GRABS a hold of his jersey. Keane punches Murphy on the butt of his chin.

You know those doors with no handles and the small metal push sign? Do you strike them open?

Actually, there isn't a difference between a strike and a push for our purposes.

In the dictionary the only difference between a strike and a push, is that the latter causes the object to move.

But a push fulfils the definition of a strike. Both require force and both require contact. Force + contact = a strike.

It does make a difference in the GAA rule book, not sure what you meant by "our purposes". Pushing is one type of foul, resulting in a free kick. Striking is a different foul resulting in a red card.

The weakness here is in the rule book, and in particular with language, so I am not having a go at you.

But by definition you cannot push someone without striking them. Equally you can't slap or punch someone without striking them either.

We could break down every word for its exact meaning. How would you state it in the rule book for both fouls?
For example you can't use punch as there many different ways of striking with the hand.
I guess it is getting balance between legal talk and what your average GAA person will understand.
I think every GAA person knows the difference between and push and a strike. Not sure why you have raised it.