Tyrone V Monaghan AIQF 2015

[Mikhailov]

is this game an all ticket affair or can you pay on the day at Croker...

[upmonaghansayswe]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

[nrico2006]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

A team doesn't win every game at home, but the majority of home games will be won by the home team. 

[BennyHarp]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

[Walter Cronc]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

Personally I think a lot of it is over emphasised and it mainly comes down to talent. Obviously if that talent is equal then other factors play a part.

I think this Monaghan are a better side than 2013 but I have a sneaky feeling that Tyrone will win it. They are building momentum and  there was a bit of swagger and great running off the ball on Saturday, albeit against poor opposition!

[Dire Ear]

Am I the only one who believes M. Duffy will have a negative influence in ths game?  Think Tyrone will be very lucky to get anything from him,  he's a poor and biased ref in my opinion.  Hope it's a good fair game , but can't see it happening...........

[GrandMasterFlash]

Philip Jordan says Monaghan by 2. He's an astute analyst.

Can't see anyone lumping on Tyrone.

I too like Jordan. His perception of the belief of the Monaghan and Tyrone fans appears to be garnered from this thread; would he be having the odd wee look in do ya think? 

[macdanger2]

is this game an all ticket affair or can you pay on the day at Croker...

You won't be able to pay at the gate as far as I know but you should be able to buy tickets at the ticket offices around croke park - one just down from the Big Tree, one opposite Gills, presumably others also. There can be big, slow-moving queues at these though so come early

[longballin]

Tony Donnelly got it right. Tyrone have played no-one and as Fermanagh showed any half middling team can get to a quarter final if they get the right draw. Saturday will show where they are at... Monaghan by 4.

[rrhf]

Am I the only one who believes M. Duffy will have a negative influence in ths game?  Think Tyrone will be very lucky to get anything from him,  he's a poor and biased ref in my opinion.  Hope it's a good fair game , but can't see it happening...........

Have less belief in Tyrone after seeing the referee appointed. 

[Fuzzman]

I've an inkling McShane will be named tonight.
He'll be frothing at the mouth that he's not playwdy since Donegal.
Mickey knows he's highly motivated and holding him back will have created a massive hunger to prove himself. He'll be like Dinky McBride in 1995.

[rrhf]

Dont ruin the lad!

[Maguire01]

I'm surprised how many neutrals seem to think Tyrone will take Monaghan.
Met loads in Galway and back here in Dublin who all think Tyrone have what it takes to beat them

I think this is a very new look Tyrone team & whilst it has experience it always struggles against a HEAVY blanket which both Monaghan and Donegal play very well. Even Kerry now can smother teams instead of playing their much more open game.
I can see Kerry playing open until they meet the Dubs and then suffocating them in the final.

My head says Monaghan but my heart and every other neutral says Tyrone.

I think some of those neutrals might be telling you what they think you want to hear!

I don't think by any stretch that Monaghan will sail through Saturday, or that they're guaranteed to win, but I don't see how anyone can take an objective look at the fixture and be confident that Tyrone will win it - a few on here talking about a 4 point win.

Just think about:
Tyrone being totally untested through the qualifiers (and even then, Sligo managed 14 points on Saturday)
Respective league performances, including head to head fixture
Comparison of the two teams since the corresponding fixture in 2013 - Tyrone having lost some experienced players
Monaghan more focussed on the QF than in 2013
Monaghan having beaten Tyrone in last year's Ulster Championship (first time since 1988)

Maybe its because Tyrone win in Croke Park, Monaghan don't.

Well they do. Kildare last year and a number of other league finals for this group of players.

Not forgetting that Tyrone can lose in Croke Park too.

Any prediction based on that (flawed) logic isn't worth taking too seriously.

How many championship games have Monaghan played in Croke Park since 2005?  How many have they won?

As another poster has responded, played 7, lost 6. But there's no real point in going back to 2005 - only a handful of players remain and the management team is long gone. If you want to compare, go from 2010:

Monaghan:
Won 1 Kildare
Lost 3 Kildare, Tyrone & Dublin

Tyrone:
Won 4 Sligo, Meath, Monaghan & Roscommon
Lost 3 Mayo, Dublin (twice)

I don't see too much in that to tell the teams apart, when you look at the opposition. I'd be confident that Monaghan could have chalked up wins in Croke Park if they'd landed Sligo, Meath & Roscommon. Tyrone in 2013 is one we were capable of winning, but it's not a case that we're heading into Croke Park as favourites and losing all these games.

[Maguire01]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

Its a wonder how we lost to Tyrone and Donegal so comfortably in the 2010 and 2014 finals then, considering they were in Clones..

Serious question, do people think history plays any part in creating pressure/mind sets for current teams? Are Monaghan under more pressure to deliver this year because they lost in 2013? Or does it have no bearing? Will a loss on Saturday lead to a mindset that the quarter final is their glass ceiling and winning in Croke Park in the biggest games becomes a monkey on their back? Does the final losses of previous years impact on the psyche of current Mayo teams? Do teams freeze when met by the history of Kerry? Would Tyrone have had the mental toughness to win the AI through the back door in 2008 had they not won it in previous years?

Or is it all a pile of bollicks and its all about what happens on the day?

I definitely think that history has a significant impact. I think it's the reason why the likes of Mayo has failed to realise their full potential, and also why teams like Kerry can win games when the opposition is better on paper. I do think there's added pressure on Monaghan to pass the QF stage, but in getting the Tyrone monkey off their back last year the pressure isn't just as big as it might have been.

And if all this stuff wasn't real, there wouldn't be such a need for sports psychologists.

[Maguire01]

I think it does have a big bearing on the potential outcome of this weekends game.  Monaghan are fortunate enough (a bit like Dublin in a way) to get a high portion of their championship games at home.  They beat Tyrone last year by a point at home and the same with Donegal a few weeks back.  Croke Park is a neutral venue and it seems that in nearly all their championship games played there over the past number of years that they don't do as well as they do at home, which is natural considering the advantages that teams gain when playing in their own ground, they say its usually worth 2 or 3 points.

My issue with this analysis is that you're saying that because Monaghan lose games at Croke Park, then it must be because the game is in Croke Park. It fails to take account of the fact that in general, by the time you get to Croke Park in the Championship you're playing the better teams. There may be other factors at play too, specific to individual games. But just because we've lost games at Croke Park doesn't mean we've lost them because they were at Croke Park. We've won a Division 3 and Division 2 league finals there in the past few years and we've beaten Kildare there last year. If we lose on Saturday, I wouldn't be blaming the venue.