Fermanagh v Dublin AIQ/Final

[yellowcard]

McGuinness makes some very good observations in that article and it's part of an overall GAA problem, the growing gulf in standards.

[deiseach]

There are some awfully mean-spirited comments about Fermanagh here, and not just from the usual suspects. I remember a time when I was grateful for Waterford to put up a decent showing in any Championship hurling (obviously) match. And by 'any', I mean at Senior, Minor or Under-21 level. A win of any description was enough to make the year and to put up a decent showing on a bigger stage was the stuff of fantasy. That was our attitude 20-something years ago and despite suggestions here that such an attitude typified a culture of mediocrity we have gotten to the point where what was the stuff of fantasy has become a matter of routine. A little understanding for why Fermanagh would treat Sunday's performance as a victory of sorts would not go amiss.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not trying to be mean spirited about it, and I'm not trying to denigrate Fermanagh's performance. I just find it odd that they would be happy about it. Proud they kept going, yes. Determined to push on from there, absolutely. But happy?  As I said, I could even buy the moral victory angle if they really put it up to Dublin and the Dubs just pulled away to win by 8 at the end. It wasn't anything like that, and I think it's patronising to Fermanagh to suggest it was. I just can't see it, but maybe I'm being too harsh on them. If so, it's unintentional.

And JoG, I take your point, and that's actually what I am badly articulating here. My being disconcerted by their reaction is more about the huge gulf that is opening up between the top 3 or 4 (or maybe 5 or 6) and everyone else.  Fermanagh should be disgusted they've just lost by 8 points, in an ideal world, not relieved and happy. Maybe we do need a tiered championship after all, much as I hate to think about it. The problem is the top tier is really only those 5-6 teams.

And yellowcard, of course I was exaggerating with 60%. How can you quantify that? But I'll clarify. I believe that Dublin were not at their top level of intensity, and didn't have to be to win comfortably. How much more they have to find, I suppose we'll see in the next game or maybe two.

[rodney trotter]

Fermanagh were the first team to hold Dublin under 10pts, that was an achievement in itself. They were probaly relieved after witnessing Kildare who are much bigger County population wise getting trounced by Kery beforehand.

Big gulf after the top 3/4 teams.

[haranguerer]

I haven't saw the game on TV yet, but going on what I saw at the match, and my take on it...

Dublin won comfortably, but they weren't comfortable in their performance. And I don't know about complacency going in to the game, but it wasn't a 'foot off the gas' scenario. Fermanagh, particularly in the first half, dominated midfield and the break area, they had the lions share of possession in that first half too (ht stats showed they had 60% of possession), and were largely able to work possession into scoreable positions. Where the difference was was in terms of efficiency; Fermanagh had four opportunities for scores before Dublin had one - Dublin scored theirs however, Fermanagh put three wide and one short. Perhaps in the highlights, it looked like a game whereby Dublin pulled ahead easily enough and took their foot of the pedal, but while Dublin continued to be much more efficient than Fermanagh, they were getting their fill of it out the field. The corrigans and quigley were all able to win ball, and the corrigans and mccusker took players on and more often than not got by them.

For all that, Dublin continued to pull away; Bernard Brogan, although there was slack enough marking at times, was a joy to watch, and the match seemed to be going very much to script. The +14 the bookies had offered seemed to be a benchmark of what would be a decent result for Fermanagh, and 10 down at ht it didn't look that achievable, especially given Dublins propensity for really pulling away in the last 15 min.

It continued in much the same vein in the second half - I didn't see the second half stats; Dublin won more possession round the middle than they had the first, but there were large periods where it was tit for tat, some good scores from Fermanagh being responded to by simple scores by Dublin. The goal shouldn't have counted obviously - the scenario, whereby he hadn't awarded a free straight off, put him a quandary when it was called back and the umpire told him it had crossed the line. He should have cleared his head and taken longer to think about the situation, but what was surprising was that it did seem to rattle Dublin.

That goal was celebrated raucously, and the atmosphere from there til the end was the best prolonged atmosphere I've ever experienced at a gaelic match. It was just having the craic at the scenario, an underdog (altho under no illusions they were going to get beaten) taking the p*ss out of a great team; the hill were booing quigley, who was loving it, Fermanagh were hitting some great scores and also got another goal from a mix up: it was just sheer pantomime, and great craic altogether.

A lot has been made of the contrasting free count, having  not seen the game on tv I'd say Fermanagh got one or two that you were thinking were soft enough, but not many more, and I don't remember an incident where Dublin were denied a clear cut free - perhaps watching a replay will clear that up for me though. The reality for me was that we were often too far off in defence, and seemed perhaps overly concerned with preventing goals; the low free count for Dublin an indictment of not being near enough the shooter to put good pressure on them, rather than an indicator of a heavily biased referee. Referees in gaa do have way too much influence on the game though, it is something that needs to be looked at, and I'd definitely be in favour of their matches being reviewed with an assessor after the game so their decisions would have to be explained.

I note a few have been critical of the fermanagh team being cheered off the field, and the players reacting accordingly, and I can see that an argument could be made that if defeat is celebrated, then perhaps there is a danger it would be settled for...but this fails to take into account the evolution of a team. With each good campaign, the bar is raised. A lot has been learnt from that campaign, and if we were to get through to the QF next year, we'd be expecting more than an honourable defeat no matter who we were up against. We were celebratnig the start of a new era for Fermanagh, and I'd like to think the support gives them a greater incentive to push on.

In relation to Dublin, this hasn't been a bad game for them at all imo. They won easily, but frailties were exposed; Fermanagh were through on goal at least 4 times, and they dominated midfield and breaks for significant periods. These frailties were there, better for them to be exposed now in a win than against Kerry or someone when its too late to recover. They were also probably exaggerated a bit (esp mf) with the changes that were made; perhaps Gavin was trying not to show his hand, either way, I'd much rather have had Dublins game than Kerrys, and I don't think I'd make much distinction as to who actually is in the better position. One thing I would say though it that it seems to me in modern football, despite the defensive systems [and actually because of them] there are goals there for the taking if a bit of nous is used, and the gooch is unmatched for that sort of nous. 

[AZOffaly]

Fermanagh were the first team to hold Dublin under 10pts, that was an achievement in itself. They were probaly relieved after witnessing Kildare who are much bigger County population wise getting trounced by Kery beforehand.

Big gulf after the top 3/4 teams.

The Kildare thing is a whole other spectrum in terms of performance in my view alright.

[brokencrossbar1]

Lads fermanagh did well and no-one is taking away from them but I genuinely think that the 2004 Fermanagh team were a better side and it was a greater achievement to what happened the other day.  Dublin could have won that game by 20 points if they really focused.  Fermanagh were plucky etc but I agree with AZ,  if I played on that team I would be gutted coming off the field and not laughing and joking. 

To put things in perspective,  Monaghan has a smaller population than Fermanagh,  8 more clubs.  I know there is a fair Protestant community in Fermanagh but there's a few in Monaghan too, they just play the games!!!    Fermanagh will do well this year, push to a final in Ulster in the next 2 years if the draw is kind but ultimately they will fall back to the nearly men category.  This is the way of things and unless there is a significant change in the club structures and the schools football then there will be no building on this current 'success'.  People are saying how they kept Dublin within 10 points.  If the first 'goal' had not been given I reckon Dublin would have coasted on to a 15 point win.  Let's not fool ourselves any further.

[Hound]

In my view, the Fermanagh players weren't laughing and smiling at the "achievement" of just losing by 8 points.

The Fermanagh fans came down with the intention of giving their lads 100% support and to stick with their team no matter what the scoreline.

There was a big group of fans near me in the lower Hogan. They gave a massive cheer when Fermanagh got their first point to equalise. 2 or 3 of them whooped, hollered and gesticulated the same way I did when Cluxton kicked the winning point in the AI final v Kerry! Sure, they were exaggerating, but they were out to enjoy themselves.

The two late goals they got were as comical as I've ever seen in Croker. For them to happen so close together at the end of the game was remarkable, the Fermanagh fans went ultra-mental. The game was long gone, but I don't see how, as a Fermanagh player, you couldnt have a smile on your face at the end given the noise from your fans and the last few minutes of absolute madness.

[laoislad]

Fermanagh were the first team to hold Dublin under 10pts, that was an achievement in itself. They were probaly relieved after witnessing Kildare who are much bigger County population wise getting trounced by Kery beforehand.

Big gulf after the top 3/4 teams.

So slighty less of a hammering than other teams Dublin have hammered..Thats one to tell the grandkids about alright.
This thread has got silly. Great entertainment reading it though.

[AZOffaly]

In my view, the Fermanagh players weren't laughing and smiling at the "achievement" of just losing by 8 points.

The Fermanagh fans came down with the intention of giving their lads 100% support and to stick with their team no matter what the scoreline.

There was a big group of fans near me in the lower Hogan. They gave a massive cheer when Fermanagh got their first point to equalise. 2 or 3 of them whooped, hollered and gesticulated the same way I did when Cluxton kicked the winning point in the AI final v Kerry! Sure, they were exaggerating, but they were out to enjoy themselves.

The two late goals they got were as comical as I've ever seen in Croker. For them to happen so close together at the end of the game was remarkable, the Fermanagh fans went ultra-mental. The game was long gone, but I don't see how, as a Fermanagh player, you couldnt have a smile on your face at the end given the noise from your fans and the last few minutes of absolute madness.

Maybe because I'm walking off the field after losing by 8 points and never looking like winning it? Ara I don't know. Maybe I'm just turning into a narky f**ker.

[rodney trotter]

Fermanagh were the first team to hold Dublin under 10pts, that was an achievement in itself. They were probaly relieved after witnessing Kildare who are much bigger County population wise getting trounced by Kery beforehand.

Big gulf after the top 3/4 teams.

So slighty less of a hammering than other teams Dublin have hammered..Thats one to tell the grandkids about alright.
This thread has got silly. Great entertainment reading it though.

You discovered the Gaa section well done. Thought you just talked shite about Liverpool

[brokencrossbar1]

In my view, the Fermanagh players weren't laughing and smiling at the "achievement" of just losing by 8 points.

The Fermanagh fans came down with the intention of giving their lads 100% support and to stick with their team no matter what the scoreline.

There was a big group of fans near me in the lower Hogan. They gave a massive cheer when Fermanagh got their first point to equalise. 2 or 3 of them whooped, hollered and gesticulated the same way I did when Cluxton kicked the winning point in the AI final v Kerry! Sure, they were exaggerating, but they were out to enjoy themselves.

The two late goals they got were as comical as I've ever seen in Croker. For them to happen so close together at the end of the game was remarkable, the Fermanagh fans went ultra-mental. The game was long gone, but I don't see how, as a Fermanagh player, you couldnt have a smile on your face at the end given the noise from your fans and the last few minutes of absolute madness.

Maybe because I'm walking off the field after losing by 8 points and never looking like winning it? Ara I don't know. Maybe I'm just turning into a narky f**ker.

'Turning'? 

[AZOffaly]

Good job you're not turning. It'd take you a week

[twohands!!!]

A lot has been made of the contrasting free count, having  not seen the game on tv I'd say Fermanagh got one or two that you were thinking were soft enough, but not many more, and I don't remember an incident where Dublin were denied a clear cut free - perhaps watching a replay will clear that up for me though. The reality for me was that we were often too far off in defence, and seemed perhaps overly concerned with preventing goals; the low free count for Dublin an indictment of not being near enough the shooter to put good pressure on them, rather than an indicator of a heavily biased referee. Referees in gaa do have way too much influence on the game though, it is something that needs to be looked at, and I'd definitely be in favour of their matches being reviewed with an assessor after the game so their decisions would have to be explained.

There will have been an assessor in the stands and the ref will receive feedback from them on their performance.

On the free count - my opinion would have been very similar to yours in that maybe Fermanagh got one or two soft frees - bar the first Fermanagh goal I would have said the ref had a very solid performance and got the overwhelming majority of decisions correct - however I can see that goal haunting him a fair bit as it was a woeful one to get wrong.
I would say a large part of the contrasting free count was due to the fact that Fermanagh were constantly running into contact, moving the ball through the hands, especially in terms of bringing the ball out of defence whereas Dublin did a lot more quick kick passing and Fermanagh defenders often weren't even close enough to foul.
Also Dublin were left take their kickouts unopposed and move out of their own half under no pressure whatsoever whereas Dublin were pushing up as afar as possible on Fermanagh's kickouts and constantly putting them under pressure - I think it would be very interesting if there was a breakdown of who in the Dublin team committed the most fouls - really wouldn't be surprised if the Dublin forwards and midfielders featured fairly highly.

[twohands!!!]

Classy statement from Fermanagh GAA to the fans.

Fermanagh GAA would like to thank its fans for their undying support throughout the 2015 season, from the Queens University game in the McKenna Cup on January 4th right through to 210 days later and our defeat to Dublin in the All Ireland Quarter Final.

We have received unrivalled support at all games this season, with some fantastic days in Brewster Park, including the victory over Roscommon a particular highlight.

The atmosphere on the road has been just as good with the draw against Armagh, the victory against Westmeath in Breffni Park and of course the support shown to the players after Sunday's defeat to Dublin.

The Fermanagh GAA players and management team would like to thank all of our supporters for getting behind the County and being the '16th Man' in the crowd and we look forward to welcoming everyone back in the 2016 season in which we will compete in Division 2 of the National Football League.

We will leave no stone unturned in our quest to be the best we can be and with your support we are fully committed in making this happen.

http://fermanagh.gaa.ie/a-message-to-all-our-fermanagh-fans/