United Ireland

[BluestackBoy]

I would treat it with the same utter contempt that I would treat a DUP, FF, FG or Labour vision for a new state.

But my view is irrelevant. What could be relevant is that I reckon most of the voters in the south would reject it, which would set the cause back decades. So why would SF be wasting their time with this 'vision'?

Concerning themselves seriously with a vision for a reunited Ireland, to the benefit of all, would not be seen as 'wasting their time'; quite the diametric opposite in reality.

The notion that Sinn Fein have a vision for Ireland that will be to the "benefit of all" is a delusion.

Sinn Fein, like the DUP FF FG, are politicians & are therefore, by definition, only interested in themselves & acquiring power.

Once this basic principle is understood we can examine "visions" until then.......

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

The notion that Sinn Fein have a vision for Ireland that will be to the "benefit of all" is a delusion.

Sinn Fein, like the DUP FF FG, are politicians & are therefore, by definition, only interested in themselves & acquiring power.

Once this basic principle is understood we can examine "visions" until then.......

In your opinion... you forgot that addendum. Of course all politicians seek power, what's the point otherwise? Let me know when they've racked up a venality count approximating any of the others you've cited (and no one's claiming them to be whiter than white either).

[Rossfan]

So Sinn Féin are going to do away with a whole lot of taxes, are going to improve public services and give us a perfect public Health Service.
I hope all air routes over Ireland will be closed as all those flying pigs will cause mayhem.

[BluestackBoy]

The notion that Sinn Fein have a vision for Ireland that will be to the "benefit of all" is a delusion.

Sinn Fein, like the DUP FF FG, are politicians & are therefore, by definition, only interested in themselves & acquiring power.

Once this basic principle is understood we can examine "visions" until then.......

In your opinion... you forgot that addendum. Of course all politicians seek power, what's the point otherwise? Let me know when they've racked up a venality count approximating any of the others you've cited (and no one's claiming them to be whiter than white either).

I wouldn't want to get into a tit for tat scoring exercise about venality, there wouldn't be enough room on all the servers in the world to keep up

My basic point is that when I hear any political party maintaining that their "vision" will be for the benefit of all, I get a twitch below my left eye & an urge to get the double barrell shotgun out & point it at the fecker responsible for said twitch.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I wouldn't want to get into a tit for tat scoring exercise about venality, there wouldn't be enough room on all the servers in the world to keep up

My basic point is that when I hear any political party maintaining that their "vision" will be for the benefit of all, I get a twitch below my left eye & an urge to get the double barrell shotgun out & point it at the fecker responsible for said twitch.

OK, 'benefit for all' is probably an overstatement on my part, let's put it like this, for the benefit of the vast majority, ie, those who aren't already creaming the system, the obnoxious elite.

As for 'getting rid of all the taxes' -- where the feck did they that Rossfan? Are you getting mixed up between fair and progressive taxation and no taxation at all? Understandable I suppose if you're coming from far right field. 

[Applesisapples]

SF like most opposition parties will trot out populist nonsense and dress it up as policy, when they actually are in government it will be a different prospect.

[muppet]

The chances of SF getting their left wing nation up and running are nil. Even if every single one of us  voted for it, it wouldn't get off the ground as the EU/IMF/US etc would all pull their considerable plugs. We have one of the most open economies in the world, for better or for worse, but it would close up very quickly if we veer hard left. Ask Greece.

It is merely populist vote getting, but not remotely realistic. Sadly there are many who don't know the difference.

And this current government's pre-election bribes aren't 'populist vote getting'? And the blanket bank guarantee wasn't the biggest 'experiment' ever inflicted on this state?

I wouldn't be talking about 'hard left' either, but so poisonous has the political axis and debate become that anything remotely centrist these days is construed as 'hard left' -- it's the extreme right (as currently ensconced) that a lot of folk have problems with.

There is no extreme right in Ireland.

There is barely anything right of centre in Ireland since the demise of the PDs (who I couldn't vote for BTW).

There is FG who claim to be slightly to the right but jump into bed with Labour at every opportunity. There is FF who are left right and centre or whatever you are having today.

Then you have SF, who are obviously left wing whose greatest current fear is beoing outflanked by Joe Higgins, Paul Murphy and co. This is the 'centrist' party that supports Tspiras.   

There is no 'right' in Irish politics, unless you are standing with nothing to your left.

But back to your dig at me regarding democracy. How does a party, who would be despised by 50% in the 6 counties while in the 26 probably 70% will never go near them, get to design a new state for all of us?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

There is no extreme right in Ireland.

There is barely anything right of centre in Ireland since the demise of the PDs (who I couldn't vote for BTW).

There is FG who claim to be slightly to the right but jump into bed with Labour at every opportunity. There is FF who are left right and centre or whatever you are having today.

Then you have SF, who are obviously left wing whose greatest current fear is beoing outflanked by Joe Higgins, Paul Murphy and co. This is the 'centrist' party that supports Tspiras.   

There is no 'right' in Irish politics, unless you are standing with nothing to your left.

But back to your dig at me regarding democracy. How does a party, who would be despised by 50% in the 6 counties while in the 26 probably 70% will never go near them, get to design a new state for all of us?

Wow, you really are blind to the reality of politics in this state, though your assertion that "There is barely anything right of centre in Ireland since the demise of the PDs" really is risible!

Slashing the carers' allowance; removing community grants (despite the relative pittance they cost the state, and even though such an action will do nothing more than to fill the jails earlier with social dropouts -- short termism at its worst); bailing out private institutions by taxing the ordinary taxpayer; trying (and miserably failing) to set up a water utility to be hived off to private enterprise at the earliest opportunity to enrich the already affluent elite; The Economic Management Council (straight out of Pinochet's handbook, where a cabal of the inner cabinet plus a civil servant or two bypass the Dáil completely); Noonan now talking about raising the ceiling for Inheritance tax (Capital Acquisitions Tax) liability in the budget to come -- that'd be really to the benefit of the many, and not the few, yeah? etc., etc. And apparently "There is no 'right' in Irish politics..."

You gave a dig to yourself for your expression of non-recognition of the democratic wish across this island, should that eventuality ever arise -- you don't need any assistance from this quarter. Things are not set in stone, and should Britain, for example, vote to secede from the EU then the dynamic would rapidly alter across these islands.

[Soup an Samajiz]

First thing first before this goes too far...

Would we get a new fleg?

[Syferus]

There is no extreme right in Ireland.

There is barely anything right of centre in Ireland since the demise of the PDs (who I couldn't vote for BTW).

There is FG who claim to be slightly to the right but jump into bed with Labour at every opportunity. There is FF who are left right and centre or whatever you are having today.

Then you have SF, who are obviously left wing whose greatest current fear is beoing outflanked by Joe Higgins, Paul Murphy and co. This is the 'centrist' party that supports Tspiras.   

There is no 'right' in Irish politics, unless you are standing with nothing to your left.

But back to your dig at me regarding democracy. How does a party, who would be despised by 50% in the 6 counties while in the 26 probably 70% will never go near them, get to design a new state for all of us?

Wow, you really are blind to the reality of politics in this state, though your assertion that "There is barely anything right of centre in Ireland since the demise of the PDs" really is risible!

Slashing the carers' allowance; removing community grants (despite the relative pittance they cost the state, and even though such an action will do nothing more than to fill the jails earlier with social dropouts -- short termism at its worst); bailing out private institutions by taxing the ordinary taxpayer; trying (and miserably failing) to set up a water utility to be hived off to private enterprise at the earliest opportunity to enrich the already affluent elite; The Economic Management Council (straight out of Pinochet's handbook, where a cabal of the inner cabinet plus a civil servant or two bypass the Dáil completely); Noonan now talking about raising the ceiling for Inheritance tax (Capital Acquisitions Tax) liability in the budget to come -- that'd be really to the benefit of the many, and not the few, yeah? etc., etc. And apparently "There is no 'right' in Irish politics..."

You gave a dig to yourself for your expression of non-recognition of the democratic wish across this island, should that eventuality ever arise -- you don't need any assistance from this quarter. Things are not set in stone, and should Britain, for example, vote to secede from the EU then the dynamic would rapidly alter across these islands.

I'm sure he's talking on an absolute scale. Ireland is very much a left of centre country, a national health service, big social welfare net, high minimum wages (and about to get higher). Socially we're clearly left of centre too, the gay marriage referendum being the most forceful and recent indication of that.
That we're able to be friendly to big business and have a left of centre ideology means we've been striking close to the best compromise possible.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm sure he's talking on an absolute scale. Ireland is very much a left of centre country, a national health service, big social welfare net, high minimum wages (and about to get higher). Socially we're clearly left of centre too, the gay marriage referendum being the most forceful and recent indication of that.
That we're able to be friendly to big business and have a left of centre ideology means we've been striking close to the best compromise possible.

There is no 'national' health service, don't be obtuse, it's a combination of public and private health care sectors, where it's more comfortable to be a private patient: that does not constitute a 'national' health service, and I did not say that everything was right of centre. What I did say that there's too much on the right, and this will be an acid test of where this government's priorities lie on the political spectrum, and it won't get much more stark than this:

O'Toole on free education versus Inheritance Tax reductions

[Farrandeelin]

Has any party in the '26/south/Free State/Republic' ever set out a United Ireland agenda? It beggars belief that SF who are an all island party haven't put one to the people (i.e their vision) to see what they would do. Has FF ever done it? FG? Any party at all? If the day ever comes that there is a Unionist minority in the North, would we be guaranteed that the Secretary of State in NI would give the go ahead to a referendum on Irish unity? Why does the decision rest with that one person alone? Surely the Sec of State won't want to be seen to 'let go of Ulster' or would they?

[Rossfan]

Maguire posted the SDLP policy a few months ago.
The rest including the SF "visionaries" don't seem to have anything at all.
I would imagine that when Nationalist parties get more votes than the Unionist ones there will be a major clamour for the Sec of State to organise the Referendum.

[Applesisapples]

Even if there was a nationalist majority in the morning, it would not necessarily mean a united Ireland. reunification if it happens will be a complex affair, I have not heard either nationalist party in the North articulate coherently what this would entail, how would they accommodate the wider unionist family and probably more importantly the PUL community as they are now known. A UI in the morning is likely to result in another 30 years of war unless this is thought through. Given the crap in North Antrim over flegs in Ballycastle and our Ruthie's attendance at a UDA parade not even drawing a mention from Unionists I can't see that being an easy circle to square.

[omaghjoe]

Where Ireland falls on the political spectrum is all dependant what your reference point is. Im just wondering what this absolute scale is?

If  America is the reference point then we are well left of centre. But in comparison to pretty much every other European country, Ireland is at least centre right.
To me FG are the archetypal conservative party, pro law and order, stability, and generally taking sensible safe economic options but they have been held in check by having to jump in bed with Labour.
However the policies of FF have been far more influential in the general political position of the state, they are completely populist and as a result all over the political spectrum but generally speaking pro business and pro nationalist which would be considered more to the right than the left.

Even socially speaking its the same thing. If we use our recent past as a reference point, Ireland is very "liberal". However in comparison to other Western countries (inc America,) Ireland is pretty conservative. Ireland was most certainly not in the vanguard, they jumped on the bandwagon of gay marriage. Church influence and attendance tho on the wane is still very high. Abortion is illegal. Even things like divorce tho legal would still be considered to an extent a failure or embarrassment, whereas in other countries its just the way it is.Immigration and the rights of immigrants is low despite what it might appear.
Generally speaking going against the consensus is frowned upon, the tabloid mock outrage syndrome that we suffer from at every turn around, is illustrative of that. In fact the only things that we led the world in were banning plastic bags and smoking. Hardly groundbreaking and which if you think about it is actually being conservative - limiting choice and freedoms for the greater good of all.

Even tho things have changed alot when compared to our past, which is really what most Irish people are using as their reference point. In comparison to other countries things are pretty conservative/to the right both socially and politically.