Proposals to change the All Ireland Football structures

[cavanmaniac]

CCCC are correct to say that the GPA proposal will, in the end, spell the end of the provincial championships. If the provincial championships are the acred cow (and in ulster they probably are) then CCCC were right. But should the provincial championships be a sacred cow?

As a starting point for the current AI series they are unequal and therefore unfair. If they fall away when their role in kicking off the AI series is discontinued then do they deserved to be preserved as sacred cows?

The provincials are always the sticking point. Like you say, if you start off with these flawed, imbalanced, iniquitous competitions as your must-have cornerstone, then everything you come up with thereafter will by natural consequence also be flawed. Changing the championship structure into something decent, IMO, requires dispensing with the provincials in their current format. With respect to the players-from-whatever-county-that-has-never-won-a-provincial-title et al. and their heartfelt desire to win one and what it'd mean to the people up there etc., who are always wheeled out as an argument against this, that in itself is not a compelling reason to have the rest of the counties, spectators and the sport as a whole suffer as a result. I get that some people would love to win a provincial and I'm from a county that doesn't win them any more either, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea to ringfence them as some sort of almighty Queen Bee. What's so great about them anyway?

It's a shame that this opportunity to usher in real change might be passed up. It's so predictably GAA to open the door to change, light the fire and then go round the houses listening to the world and its mother's opinion, before effectively settling for something that just rearranges the fine china in the display cabinet.

The provincial championship's days are numbered. But the decision to move forward with something different will only be taken about 20 years after its due, as is the GAA way.

[Nihilist]

The whole thing needs an overhaul.

If things were right the whole lot from Senior Inter county right through to and including the Club All Irelands would be played in one calendar year. And that year would finish in October/November and the whole system would shut down for a couple of months to give all the players counties and clubs a break.

[Rossfan]

The whole thing needs an overhaul.

If things were right the whole lot from Senior Inter county right through to and including the Club All Irelands would be played in one calendar year. And that year would finish in October/November and the whole system would shut down for a couple of months to give all the players counties and clubs a break.

Far too much common sense in that!!
It's always one item at a time gets changed in GAAworld which usually creates other problems down the line.
Calendar/ structures of competitions/eligibilities all need reorganising so that
1 elite players aren't wrecked/burnt out by 22
2 ordinary club players get regular games in a logical way.

[6th sam]

The whole thing needs an overhaul.

If things were right the whole lot from Senior Inter county right through to and including the Club All Irelands would be played in one calendar year. And that year would finish in October/November and the whole system would shut down for a couple of months to give all the players counties and clubs a break.

Far too much common sense in that!!
It's always one item at a time gets changed in GAAworld which usually creates other problems down the line.
Calendar/ structures of competitions/eligibilities all need reorganising so that
1 elite players aren't wrecked/burnt out by 22
2 ordinary club players get regular games in a logical way.

Those 2 points totally encompass what is required.

An interesting difference between GAA and most other sports is the importance attached to winning underage competitions , as opposed to developing optimally for adult football.

[Zulu]

Not sure about that 6th Sam. I think the GAA is at the vanguard of changing the underage mindset and soccer, rugby and most other sports, I'm aware of, were at least as bad, if not worse, than the GAA when it came to the importance of winning underage.

On the calendar thing, we'll I've posted repeatedly on this but Nihilist, Rossfan and Cavanmaniac have pretty much covered the key points for me - the thing has to be as a whole and not piecemeal and the provincials have to go as they are inherently flawed and therefore any format that includes them in inherently flawed.

[Syferus]

No chance of it happening, thankfully.

[Rossfan]

d the provincials have to go as they are inherently flawed and therefore any format that includes them in inherently flawed.

I don't think we'll see that in our lifetimes Zulu.
However their timeframes need to be tightened up as do the closing stages of the A I championship.
Big gaps between games is now used for bucket loads of IC training instead of for Club championships as originally intended.

[Zulu]

No chance of it happening, thankfully.

Of course it can happen, many of the GAA's sacred cows have been changed though, as Rossfan says, it won't be anytime soon. Why you're thankful a flawed format should stay is however beyond me.

However their timeframes need to be tightened up as do the closing stages of the A I championship.
Big gaps between games is now used for bucket loads of IC training instead of for Club championships as originally intended.

I agree with that Rossfan but we need to go further IMO. The simple reality is, if you knew the relative strengths of all the counties but they had no competition structure you wouldn't come up with the current one, or any based on the provincial championships. Everybody agrees last year's championship was poor and teams are gone overly defensive but if we had a system that had Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone, Donegal, Cork and Monaghan for example clashing regularly then we'd have something to look forward. Likewise Ross facing Galway, Laois, Derry, Cavan, Westmeath, Meath, Kildare etc. would get the juices flowing and there's plenty of local derbies in those match ups.

Why complain about the amount of IC games and the impact on club games but then support a format that means two thirds of those IC games are pointless mismatches? Get rid of games like Limerick v Kerry or Dublin v Carlow and replace them with Dublin v Kerry and Limerick v Carlow, have games played every two weeks (max) and give everyone a chance to win Sam but via the same, clear pathway.

[Nihilist]

No chance of it happening, thankfully.

Of course it can happen, many of the GAA's sacred cows have been changed though, as Rossfan says, it won't be anytime soon. Why you're thankful a flawed format should stay is however beyond me.

I don't know why it can't happen either. If Croke Park put dates that were set in stone in place then Counties would have to adhere or else forfeit.  And theoretically there is plenty of time to do it in a 8/9 month timeframe. Sure some counties would have to make changes to their systems but so be it. The alternative is just  getting worse and worse as the demands on players increase. And this simply can't last indefinitely. 

[cavanmaniac]

I agree with that Rossfan but we need to go further IMO. The simple reality is, if you knew the relative strengths of all the counties but they had no competition structure you wouldn't come up with the current one, or any based on the provincial championships.

That strikes at the heart of it for me and underlines just how hidebound by tradition the GAA is.  Mini republics and career politicians in provinces are too keen on holding on to their own power,  revenue streams,  and influence to sacrifice the provincial championships.  Therefore we're beholden to a dog's dinner of a structure that effectively serves nobody well apart from those controlling the various mini fiefdom.  Let the power revert to clubs and counties I say,  who needs provincial councils?

[Rossfan]

They are hardly necessary in these days of instant communications, motorways etc etc.
Different in the old days when everything had to be sent by post and it took half the day to get to your own county town, never mind to another County or to Dublin.
Instead of the not very prestigious NFL couldn't we retain the Provincials, run on a League basis in the early months and then have whatever All Ireland Championships under whatever structure in Summer??

[Nihilist]

In total the competitive GAA year takes roughly 10 months beginning with the National Leagues on last Sunday in January and ending with most of the provincial club finals being payed in November. The problem is that there are too many  competitive fixtures in this schedule between League, Championship, Club and Inter-County.

Then you add in the likes of the FBD, McKenna Cup and the others which County teams supposedly use as a means for garnishing new talent required for the Leagues as well as the Championship. And its because the Leagues now are so tough and competitive as well that there is a higher onus on players.

I would propose going back to the old format of the League with having 4 divisions and weaker counties alongside stronger ones in the League. OK - you could say it diminishes the League but the the benefits of this are also many.

Primarily it gives County teams  a chance to take a breather before the championship as they don't have to go all out to win every single game in the League as theoretically they should be able to put out weaker/newer team depending on the opposition.

It also gives the secondary counties all the way down to Div4 a chance to play against the top teams prior to meeting them in the championship. The assumption here is that current weaker Div4 teams would be better prepared then when they meet a big gun in the championship as they would have already played at least 2 or 3 top teams and got some feel for whats required.

And it should in theory allow for the non use of regular inter county players in the likes of the FBD, McKenna Cups etc. E.g. I see Mayo played nearly 10 regular Player/panelists from the past few years in that first FBD game. And I disagree whole heatedly with that. Long enough all season will these guys be required. And they should have nothing to prove to the management. The same goes for other regular inter-county players.

[smelmoth]

I see Mayo played nearly 10 regular Player/panelists from the past few years in that first FBD game. And I disagree whole heatedly with that. Long enough all season will these guys be required. And they should have nothing to prove to the management. The same goes for other regular inter-county players.

I'm not too worried about them playing in those games. The majority of player do not over-play. They over-train. Its the latter that needs addressed

[Hound]

Why complain about the amount of IC games and the impact on club games but then support a format that means two thirds of those IC games are pointless mismatches? Get rid of games like Limerick v Kerry or Dublin v Carlow and replace them with Dublin v Kerry and Limerick v Carlow, have games played every two weeks (max) and give everyone a chance to win Sam but via the same, clear pathway.

They are no pointless games in the current championship. That's what makes it the best option available. Every game is knockout, every game means something. Every team has one chance to win their province. Then every team has one chance to win the All Ireland. Brilliant system.

Would be even better if there were 8 counties in each province, but there aren't any counties in Ulster or Leinster who will voluntarily move to Munster/Connacht, so it is what it is.

The Limericks and Carlows want to play the Dublins and Kerrys. Its good meaning but misguided neutrals who don't like it. If we could get 8 (or more) counties to volunteer to go into a Tommy Murphy/Junior/Intermediate/B championship, then great, we could look at an alternative 2 tier championship with 1 team promoted and 1 team relegated each year (similar to a well run county championship system). But we don't have 8 counties who want to play in a lower tier, so its a pointless argument.

[Nihilist]

I'm not too worried about them playing in those games. The majority of player do not over-play. They over-train. Its the latter that needs addressed

OK - well I am. Supposing they get injured and are out for the season because they played in some totally unremarkable game in January in a swamp.