Monaghan V Donegal Ulster Final

[LeoMc]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

Plenty of time for Jim McGuinness, but its not insightful. Explain the difference here, apart from in the language used:

'The Monaghan players were very successful in stifling that too and regrouped quickly around their own 45 and so forced the Donegal boys to play lateral passes, all of which made Donegal look ponderous on attack.'
'Once Donegal got back to their 45 to defend was when Monaghan really began to turn the screw. I counted double digit instances where they carried the ball up along the Gerry Arthurs stand side and they were right out about three metres from the sideline until they hit the 45 and then they turned and bounced the ball back and recycled it to the far wing. So they played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence.'

He also says re Monaghan 'Interestingly, they sought to kick-pass the ball rather than hand-pass it, thus shifting the Donegal unit over and back the pitch.' Its not particularly true - they were kicking it when required across the pitch as they kept possession, they didn't go out of their way to do so.

Usual over analysis (of the wrong areas), but he does have to submit something, and it must have been difficult not having seen the game live.

So Donegal lateral passing across the 45 is laboured but Monaghan lateral passing across the 45 is recycling to keep it away from the Donegal defence.
That is why he is the tactical Guru

[Main Street]

I think Jimmy's article is a good tactical read on this game. He's a very articulate character, interesting to listen to. and you get a good bonus with quantity of words used.
I do note that there is more than just a hint of him damning Gallagher with faint praise, such as  the use of McBrearty as the lone target  was described as an "interesting strategy".  As well as  comments that the team were more  versatile and flexible last year, probably  implying that it was down to his legacy.
and he compares his team whose "game plan was predicated on overwhelming teams with defensive intensity" to this year's dumbing down  "they are calibrated to defend no further out than their 50".

But McManus' pat on McGee's chest after he scored that point just after the 30 minute mark, was not about a statement of intent as Jimmy surmises, it was more about a  satisfying gesture of one-upmanship against his over attentive marker.

[Maroon Manc]

What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

[From the Bunker]

Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

[Main Street]

Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis

[Schkite]

What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

Think the average age of the starting 15 on Sunday was about 26-27. Outside of Lennon, Dessie and Vinny everyone else was 27 or younger as far as i remember.

[Gael85]

What age is Conor McManus?

[The Subbie]

What age is Conor McManus?

Ask Neil McGee, he was in his pocket long enough on Sunday to have got a good look at his id 

[Maguire01]

What age is Conor McManus?

26

[haranguerer]

Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis

I think Jim McGuinness is largely deserving of his reputuation, he clearly studies the game and tries to think about it in different ways, but I think this was one article he just pumped out.
Its already pointed out above that his point about Donegal being forced to play laterally across the 45 is greatly weakened by having to also point out Monaghan were forced to do the exact same thing, but one of the main tactical differences on Sunday, which doesn't get a mention and was the main factor in the shape of the game was the different attitude to kick outs - Donegal pushing up to put pressure on, Monaghan sitting back and inviting Donegal on.

[imtommygunn]

Monaghan setup in a way very similar to Kerry did last year I thought. I'd worry abouit that as it indicates they haven't really learnt from that defeat.

There are also more gaps in Donegal's defense this year than there were last year. Every team has had goal chances against them which wouldn't have happened last year.

[Bingo]

Very interesting to see how Donegal react to this. Will they begin to doubt themselves, their system, their new management team? A lot of them have been through the ringer in last number of years and doesn't seem to much pressure on many of them in terms of places on the team. Its well documented that they have a lot of miles on the clock.

This year they looked so good against Tyrone and Armagh but has been a decline since. Hard to put finger on it buts it more a missing spark as much as anything.

Everyone asking if they have peaked early in the season.

Will this defeat and the route they now face to win all-Ireland further dampen the spirits and belief in the squad.

I don't think it should and they'll have a lot to say in the outcome of the championship yet but its an early test of Gallaghers management.

[Main Street]

Between his conflict of interest of knowing the Donegal players personally allied with the not seeing the game live leaves McGuinness's analysis limited.

I will await your expansion on his 'limited' analysis

I think Jim McGuinness is largely deserving of his reputuation, he clearly studies the game and tries to think about it in different ways, but I think this was one article he just pumped out.
Its already pointed out above that his point about Donegal being forced to play laterally across the 45 is greatly weakened by having to also point out Monaghan were forced to do the exact same thing, but one of the main tactical differences on Sunday, which doesn't get a mention and was the main factor in the shape of the game was the different attitude to kick outs - Donegal pushing up to put pressure on, Monaghan sitting back and inviting Donegal on.

That's not what McGuinness wrote, I don't know how you can interpret an effect of a game plan, playing laterally, was the actual game plan.

Here is the essence of what he wrote about the  "2 game plans"
Donegal  "From the outset, Rory Gallagher decided to go with a one-man-up formation"
Monaghan "Defensively", "negated the long ball option into Patrick" "man marked inside and had a double sweeper, one on the left and one of the right of Patrick and then had everyone else marking their men"

Donegal " are calibrated to defend no further out than their 50".
Monaghan "played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence" "it was about patience, steadily wearing Donegal down"
"excelled at not taking the ball into contact"
Monaghan  "knew what the Donegal boys would do. Asking a team (donegal) to adjust – to push out" which they couldn't do.

[Mayo4Sam14]

Are Mayo smart enough to bate Donegal?

[twohands!!!]

What is the average age of the Monaghan team? I know Donegal's average age is about 28.

Think the average age of the starting 15 on Sunday was about 26-27. Outside of Lennon, Dessie and Vinny everyone else was 27 or younger as far as i remember.

In terms of the squad Gollogly, Clerkin and Finlay would all be over 30.

Keeping as many of these over 30s around the squad could be crucial for the next year or two.