Monaghan V Donegal Ulster Final

[nrico2006]

One thing that got me thinking yesterday was the save by Durcan - surely it should be permissible for a keeper to lift the ball off the ground in one of the designated areas where he is likely to make saves.  Also, Darren Hughes should have saw black in the second half, referees are making a complete hash of the black card in general.

[omagh_gael]

Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

You already did. You just beat a Donegal team that was way over-trained by a single point, the same team kicked the game away. McManus is top class, one of the best in the country, however if he is double marked, Monaghan have nothing else. The management team deserve great credit for getting far more than the sum of the parts. Have a very bad habit of defending a lead instead of pushing on in a big game. By the way I honestly wish Monaghan well, small county like ourselves and all that.

McManus was double marked yesterday and didn't do too bad.

[Zulu]

Went to my first ever Ulster final yesterday and throughly enjoyed the day. Great setting for a match and a wonderful atmosphere about for the whole day. On the match itself, well that type of game is certainly more enjoyable to watch live rather than on TV where you can see the options for the man on the ball and some of the shenanigans off it. However, speaking to a few people afterwards, they shared my view that it was like looking at soccer played through the hands. The tightness of the finish and the quality of some of the scores made it enjoyable overall but there was little intensity in much of the action and you'd not like to see football played like that regularly. I'll go again though!

[twohands!!!]

Donegal subs yesterday

M O'Reilly for Toye (32)
A Thompson for Lacey (41)
D O'Connor for McFadden (52)
L McLoone for MacNiallais (69)

4th game in the championship and 4 subs once again and still no Donegal sub player has made a contribution on the score sheet.

[Main Street]

A laboured looking Christy Toye got subbed right after getting ambushed by Ryan Wylie and then McManus scooped up the ball and hit the point that set the tone for the rest of the game.

[babarino]

Monaghan will be cannon fodder in the all Ireland series.

Aye right. Gonna quote you on that.

You already did. You just beat a Donegal team that was way over-trained by a single point, the same team kicked the game away. McManus is top class, one of the best in the country, however if he is double marked, Monaghan have nothing else. The management team deserve great credit for getting far more than the sum of the parts. Have a very bad habit of defending a lead instead of pushing on in a big game. By the way I honestly wish Monaghan well, small county like ourselves and all that.

Where you're getting this over-trained theory from, who knows? You must have the ear of someone in the know. More likely it's just begrudgery. Not very convincing with the wishing us well at the end.

[orangeman]

If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

There seems to have been an evolution after an evaluation of Murphy's input. When Murphy played in the first year or two, he was played mostly on the square but over time he has come out more and more around the middle.

But I suppose you can afford that when you have lads like Mc Fadden and MC Brearty around.

Question is - if MC Brearty is injured and doesn't play on Sunday, where does Murphy go ?.

Monday's independent report -

Monaghan must have been delighted to see Murphy posted so far from their goal for so long. With Corey and some others crowding him at every turn, Murphy rarely got within striking distance of goal until late on when he was posted in a traditional full-forward slot.


Corey 3 Ulster finals holding Murphy scoreless is what's been said - technically correct but when Murphy is away out the field, happy days for the man that's marking him.

[Main Street]

If Murphy hits top form then any opposition will be in trouble. You'd imagine if you had a Murphy you'd play him as close to goal as possible but Donegal don't always use that tactic, preferring instead to get more out of him by getting him involved, hands on the ball out the field.

If Murphy was playing a decade ago I'd say he would definitely be playing closer to goal and would largely be unstoppable in the style of games back then when top class forwards could express themselves on a weekly basis.

There seems to have been an evolution after an evaluation of Murphy's input. When Murphy played in the first year or two, he was played mostly on the square but over time he has come out more and more around the middle.

But I suppose you can afford that when you have lads like Mc Fadden and MC Brearty around.

Question is - if MC Brearty is injured and doesn't play on Sunday, where does Murphy go ?.

Monday's independent report -

Monaghan must have been delighted to see Murphy posted so far from their goal for so long. With Corey and some others crowding him at every turn, Murphy rarely got within striking distance of goal until late on when he was posted in a traditional full-forward slot.


Corey 3 Ulster finals holding Murphy scoreless is what's been said - technically correct but when Murphy is away out the field, happy days for the man that's marking him.

There's a wonderful photo of one of their tussles in the Indo match report from a batch by an excellent sports photographer, Stephen McCarthy.

[haranguerer]

Great to see Monaghan do it, hope they keep f**king about with Casement so the final is in clones for many years to come.

Monaghan really backed their defence - they let Donegal gain possession from their own kickouts, inviting them on, but were able to largely prevent them scoring. It was in complete contrast to the pressure Donegal put on Monaghans kickouts; you could see them sprinting up on their men to prevent the short kickout, and they got a lot of joy when Monaghan then had to kick the ball longer. You were never confident that Monaghan were going to win any of their own kickouts, and at times men seemed surprised it was coming to them; they'll certainly need to work something there.

On another note, it pisses me off to hear 'experts' harping on about how Murphy should be played closer to the goal - the same eejits would be saying he should have been brought out had he been in there surrounded by defenders. In either position, there's an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm happy to defer to McGuinness and now Gallagher when it comes to where best to play him.

[Main Street]

Great to see Monaghan do it, hope they keep f**king about with Casement so the final is in clones for many years to come.

Monaghan really backed their defence - they let Donegal gain possession from their own kickouts, inviting them on, but were able to largely prevent them scoring. It was in complete contrast to the pressure Donegal put on Monaghans kickouts; you could see them sprinting up on their men to prevent the short kickout, and they got a lot of joy when Monaghan then had to kick the ball longer. You were never confident that Monaghan were going to win any of their own kickouts, and at times men seemed surprised it was coming to them; they'll certainly need to work something there.

On another note, it pisses me off to hear 'experts' harping on about how Murphy should be played closer to the goal - the same eejits would be saying he should have been brought out had he been in there surrounded by defenders. In either position, there's an element of robbing Peter to pay Paul, but I'm happy to defer to McGuinness and now Gallagher when it comes to where best to play him.

There was a discussion on the BBC panel about that but I thought it was considered discussion. Oisin's strong point was that at 5 points down, Donegal still had the same cautious defensive approach. McHugh said it was a difficult choice,  Oisin said what choice? lose by one or lose by 10 is all the same? McHugh replied that Donegal  did create enough chances with their approach in the 2nd half, but just missed them.
Both arguments had merit, but bear in mind Donegal still had Murphy collecting the short pass from his goalkeeper late on in the game, with Donegal still 3 points down.
Sometimes an image like that just sticks in the mind.

[armaghniac]

Donegal probably admired Armagh's self effacing tactics and decided to copy them.

[The Subbie]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

[haranguerer]

I'm not saying he should be played out the field all the time, nor am I saying he should be played closer to goal all the time. My point is that it seems to be lazy analysis to blame Murphy being out the field as the reason Donegal lost. He'll be missed where ever he isn't playing, and now they've lost its easy to say this or that should have been done. But we have seen Donegal win big games where he has been out round the middle, are we assume these were despite this, or is it likely it was in fact a large part of it?

[haranguerer]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-monaghan-s-smart-game-plan-gets-them-over-the-line-1.2291338

Very insightful from Jimmy, still a bit sickened.

Plenty of time for Jim McGuinness, but its not insightful. Explain the difference here, apart from in the language used:

'The Monaghan players were very successful in stifling that too and regrouped quickly around their own 45 and so forced the Donegal boys to play lateral passes, all of which made Donegal look ponderous on attack.'
'Once Donegal got back to their 45 to defend was when Monaghan really began to turn the screw. I counted double digit instances where they carried the ball up along the Gerry Arthurs stand side and they were right out about three metres from the sideline until they hit the 45 and then they turned and bounced the ball back and recycled it to the far wing. So they played keep ball just beyond Donegal's line of defence.'

He also says re Monaghan 'Interestingly, they sought to kick-pass the ball rather than hand-pass it, thus shifting the Donegal unit over and back the pitch.' Its not particularly true - they were kicking it when required across the pitch as they kept possession, they didn't go out of their way to do so.

Usual over analysis (of the wrong areas), but he does have to submit something, and it must have been difficult not having seen the game live.

[The Subbie]

The insight was as to how sickened he seems with the result.

Like I said , very insightful.