Armagh v Donegal USFC 14/06/2015

[nrico2006]

Much like our situation in rebuilding Tyrone, there is very little point saying Armagh are 3 years behind Donegal if there is little prospect of either the players or the tactics / system bridging that gap.

While Harte may have the experience to figure out a way to compete against them he simply doesn't have the players (most importantly the forwards) and while Armagh fans might feel they have the players I don't think they have the tactical nous on the sideline.

If you take Jamie Clarke and Sean Cavanagh out of the equation there are simply no marquee players on either the Armagh or Tyrone teams.  There are plenty of decent players, plenty of hardworking players and some who may become very very good but not enough to match the reservoir of class that the top teams are drawing from.

Look at the players who didn't even start for Dublin or Kerry. Tyrone or Armagh would have them in a heartbeat.

I don't think Harte has the 'nous' to figure out the top teams though, he has shown nothing different in the past 5 years to suggest otherwise.  You just have to look at Donegal yesterday and how they have shown that a team can play differently so soon after a new manager has been appointed, the amount of high ball pumped was something that you will rarely see Tyrone try. 

[yellowcard]

Donegal played around with Armagh in that second half like a cat with a mouse, I have never seen anything like it in senior championship football before, it must have been hard for Armagh supporters to watch, what happens next for Armagh I just dont know, they will be hard to motivate for the qualifiers.

I would say the opposite. Armagh are proud and will want to prove a point.

As for the Donegal playing the ball about. At that stage I feel Armagh were resigned to defeat and did not want to push up on Donegal in case they got caught out and suffered a bigger defeat.

The Dubs may joke but Donegal are a serious team and when they hit a purple patch they can match anyone. Cute as hell too. Always the sign of a top team.

I think you could well be right there. The team played with an obvious fear from the beginning and were far too concerned with the opposition. Too much analysis of the game instead of building a game plan to suit our own players. I hope that lessons are learned and we have a good game to begin with in the qualifiers to begin with to restroe some wounded pride.   

[mackers]

Why would Armagh supporters jeer Donegal when their own team was sat back with a packed defense when 10 points down?  Especially to the extent that Donegal wasted 8 minutes flinging the ball about, with no pressure exerted, amongst themselves around their half - back line and midfield!

Not saying either that it's not frustrating (Kerry did it to us for a couple of minutes late in last year's final), but you can't fault a team for playing keep ball when that far ahead.

It was actually Donegal supporters onto their own team to attack and put Armagh to the sword

Really?

Well that's idiotic too.

Game was won. Well won. And Armagh were camped in their own half. Team did the right thing.

I disagree. I'd want my team to keep pushing but there you go.  They played keep ball until some of the Armagh players lost the head and barge in and foul them.  Murphy would dander up to the free, take 90 seconds to hit it.......but here's the important bit.....he put it over!  As I said, frustrating to watch.

are you seriously lamenting about Donegal's tactics when 8/9/10 points up playing on your home pitch?

I'm saying it was frustrating to watch.  Do you enjoy watching a team pass a ball about on the half way line?

I enjoy a team rolling over at home without a whimper even less. your angst should lie squarely at the feet of your own county Mackers

No, it doesn't.  I was not one of the posters who fancied Armagh before the game. As I said in my original post I think Armagh were always going to be up against it after coming out of Division 3.  We employed the same tactics as we did successfully against Donegal last year. Last year, however, we were on the back of a roll of matches and had some serious momentum.  Donegal blitzed us in the first half playing some great football with some analysts saying it was the best they had played since their recent upturn in 2011.  We were turned over repeatedly in that first half because we were not used to the intensity levels that Donegal were playing at. In the second half they had earned the right to sit back and hit us on the counter.  If we pushed up they would have repeated what they had done on a much better team than us in the AISF when they tried to play attacking football against Donegal.  Armagh's goose was cooked ten minutes in, they needed the start that Donegal got.
When Donegal started playing the "possession" football it was effective for the reasons that I explained earlier but it wasn't pretty.
You need to be more worried about how Derry are going to deal with Donegal if they play to the same level as they played on Sunday.

[tyroneman]

Much like our situation in rebuilding Tyrone, there is very little point saying Armagh are 3 years behind Donegal if there is little prospect of either the players or the tactics / system bridging that gap.

While Harte may have the experience to figure out a way to compete against them he simply doesn't have the players (most importantly the forwards) and while Armagh fans might feel they have the players I don't think they have the tactical nous on the sideline.

If you take Jamie Clarke and Sean Cavanagh out of the equation there are simply no marquee players on either the Armagh or Tyrone teams.  There are plenty of decent players, plenty of hardworking players and some who may become very very good but not enough to match the reservoir of class that the top teams are drawing from.

Look at the players who didn't even start for Dublin or Kerry. Tyrone or Armagh would have them in a heartbeat.

I don't think Harte has the 'nous' to figure out the top teams though, he has shown nothing different in the past 5 years to suggest otherwise.  You just have to look at Donegal yesterday and how they have shown that a team can play differently so soon after a new manager has been appointed, the amount of high ball pumped was something that you will rarely see Tyrone try.

It's a difficult one to assess to be fair.

On one hand you could argue that with the first of the Donegal sequence wins Tyrone were cruising until they got the yips and Joe mcMahon got hit a box in the jaw that had just healed. With him off Donegals attack got more into the game and punished Tyrones wayward shooting. Durkins wonder save, the post and last time out the bar all gave Donegal that bit of luck needed.

On the other hand you can say that's all well and good but bottom line is Donegal won those games. End of. The lack of big scalps and the d1/2 yo yo routine all with virtually the same tactics each time would point to a stale approach.

Personally I think Harte is convinced his system is right but he hasn't acknowledged that the current players are just not good enough, yet.

[Main Street]

Much like our situation in rebuilding Tyrone, there is very little point saying Armagh are 3 years behind Donegal if there is little prospect of either the players or the tactics / system bridging that gap.

While Harte may have the experience to figure out a way to compete against them he simply doesn't have the players (most importantly the forwards) and while Armagh fans might feel they have the players I don't think they have the tactical nous on the sideline.

If you take Jamie Clarke and Sean Cavanagh out of the equation there are simply no marquee players on either the Armagh or Tyrone teams.  There are plenty of decent players, plenty of hardworking players and some who may become very very good but not enough to match the reservoir of class that the top teams are drawing from.

Look at the players who didn't even start for Dublin or Kerry. Tyrone or Armagh would have them in a heartbeat.

I don't think Harte has the 'nous' to figure out the top teams though, he has shown nothing different in the past 5 years to suggest otherwise.  You just have to look at Donegal yesterday and how they have shown that a team can play differently so soon after a new manager has been appointed, the amount of high ball pumped was something that you will rarely see Tyrone try.

It's a difficult one to assess to be fair.

On one hand you could argue that with the first of the Donegal sequence wins Tyrone were cruising until they got the yips and Joe mcMahon got hit a box in the jaw that had just healed. With him off Donegals attack got more into the game and punished Tyrones wayward shooting. Durkins wonder save, the post and last time out the bar all gave Donegal that bit of luck needed.

On the other hand you can say that's all well and good but bottom line is Donegal won those games. End of. The lack of big scalps and the d1/2 yo yo routine all with virtually the same tactics each time would point to a stale approach.

Personally I think Harte is convinced his system is right but he hasn't acknowledged that the current players are just not good enough, yet.

If Mickey H  said that, then I am surprised.
Tyrone played a good game against Donegal and were not that far off. My feeling at the time was that they were good enough to win, but just didn't believe it. Maybe that a croc of s... but ......  it's good to share

[ONeill]

Is this what McGeeney was planning for, for half a year?

Holy fook.

[rrhf]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

[armaghniac]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

I'd say they weren't too happy.

[Applesisapples]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

A point I've made myself, the question is why?

[DuffleKing]

Who's missing?

[brokencrossbar1]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

A point I've made myself, the question is why?

I think there's plenty of Cross men on the panel, anymore and it would affect our chances of winning trophies.

[Orior]

Question: What would Paul Hearty have done when the ball for the first goal came in?

a) Flattened McBrearty and punched the ball 50 yards clear
b) Flattened both Morgan and McBrearty and punched the ball 50 yards clear
c) Flattened both Morgan and McBrearty, tried to punch the ball and miss it
d) Try to punch the ball away but run into Morgan
e) Try to punch the ball away but get flattened by McBrearty
f) All the above
g) None of the above
h) Something else?

My guess is (b)

[Orior]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

A point I've made myself, the question is why?

I think there's plenty of Cross men on the panel, anymore and it would affect our chances of winning trophies.

Down with that sort of thing. County first, club second, girlfriend third, family fourth, golf fifth, wife sixth!

[Orchard Officer]

Question: What would Paul Hearty have done when the ball for the first goal came in?

a) Flattened McBrearty and punched the ball 50 yards clear
b) Flattened both Morgan and McBrearty and punched the ball 50 yards clear
c) Flattened both Morgan and McBrearty, tried to punch the ball and miss it
d) Try to punch the ball away but run into Morgan
e) Try to punch the ball away but get flattened by McBrearty
f) All the above
g) None of the above
h) Something else?

My guess is (b)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVtfmlBbKw

[Applesisapples]

There's not enough cross men on the panel

A point I've made myself, the question is why?

I think there's plenty of Cross men on the panel, anymore and it would affect our chances of winning trophies.

Aye Crosses chances...not Armagh's